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re: DNA analysis shows that Jews and Arabs Descended from Canaanites

Posted on 5/29/25 at 10:16 am to
Posted by somethingdifferent
Member since Aug 2024
1940 posts
Posted on 5/29/25 at 10:16 am to
quote:

I see many "righteous believers" acting very unrighteous in this thread
This comment always amuses me. Christians are supposed to be docile and timid. Not like Jesus overturning the tables or insulting people to their face
Posted by somethingdifferent
Member since Aug 2024
1940 posts
Posted on 5/29/25 at 10:20 am to
quote:

actual evidence
If you're going to claim "consensus," that approach has already been addressed itt

quote:

rejection or lots of archeology
You're again criticizing something you don't understand. YEC don't do this. They interpret the fossil record in a particular way
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
476648 posts
Posted on 5/29/25 at 10:26 am to
quote:

Bold move, Cotton.


quote:

At all. "Dinosaurs" if they exist were merely dragons.


quote:

1) Human footprints have been found along side "dinosaur" (or dragon) footprints in dried riverbeds.

2) As per Book of Enoch, the "Giants" (off-spring of Fallen Angels and Human women) it is suggested chimeras or corrupted the DNA of the animal kingdom was created. If any of those chimeras creatures were "Dinosaurs" or other genetic freaks, they would have been illicit creations NOT of God. Thus left behind and not preserved aboard the Ark.


Bold indeed.
Posted by goatmilker
Castle Anthrax
Member since Feb 2009
76468 posts
Posted on 5/29/25 at 10:30 am to
The Book of Enoch is quite the read I suggest anyone interested in the Bible to give it a go.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
476648 posts
Posted on 5/29/25 at 10:35 am to
That was actually a bigger "bold" move, IMHO, than referencing dragons.

In which bibles is the Book of Enoch canon?
Posted by Wolfhound45
Member since Nov 2009
127383 posts
Posted on 5/29/25 at 10:47 am to
quote:

original sin of Adam
This is the issue.
Posted by FooManChoo
Member since Dec 2012
46851 posts
Posted on 5/29/25 at 10:52 am to
quote:

quote:

original sin of Adam
This is the issue.
I agree entirely, which is why I'm adamantly pro-creation and see creation as a literal 6-day event, as Jesus taught.

Those who think evolution is inconsequential to Christianity haven't really given it much thought, IMO.
Posted by FooManChoo
Member since Dec 2012
46851 posts
Posted on 5/29/25 at 10:57 am to
quote:

We have parted ways on this claim before. Saying someone might not be saved because they aren't YEC is absolutely not on solid theological footing. It undermines what the gospel is and we should be at most, agnostic on the matter of the age of the earth. The Bible absolutely does not state clearly what the age is and it's not the point of the creation account anyway. Saying someone like Billy Graham is not saved ought to be a red flag
I agree with you in principle, namely that not adhering to YEC doesn't disqualify someone from Christianity necessarily.

I don't believe the age of the earth is something that, by itself, distinguishes between a Christian and a non-Christian; saved vs. not saved.

I hope that is more clear now
Posted by L.A.
The Mojave Desert
Member since Aug 2003
66645 posts
Posted on 5/29/25 at 11:10 am to
quote:

and see creation as a literal 6-day event, as Jesus taught.

Posted by Old Money
LSU
Member since Sep 2012
41779 posts
Posted on 5/29/25 at 11:18 am to
quote:

Anyway, her dad is a pastor (Baptist) and after I wrote the letter he called to thank me and he invited me to view one of their services online. So I watched later that week and by chance his sermon was from Genesis 1 and he not only advocated for a literal 6 days of creation, but made it an article of faith for his congregation. You know, this is what we believe and this is what you need to believe if you are a member here. I found his sermon unconvincing, but more troubling for me was his insistence that one had to believe in a literal 6 days of creation in order to belong to that church. Seemed to me he was making a non-essential matter into an article of faith.


Protestants smh... thank science for catholics
Posted by FooManChoo
Member since Dec 2012
46851 posts
Posted on 5/29/25 at 11:21 am to
quote:

quote:

and see creation as a literal 6-day event, as Jesus taught.

In Matthew 19:3-9, Jesus deals with the issue of divorce. He does so by referencing the Pentateuch, and particularly Genesis. Here is the text from the ESV:

3 And Pharisees came up to him and tested him by asking, “Is it lawful to divorce one's wife for any cause?” 4 He answered, “Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, 5 and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.” 7 They said to him, “Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce and to send her away?” 8 He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.”

A few of points to note:

1. Jesus responds to the Pharisees by going back to the Scriptures
2. The Scriptures Jesus reference in particular are Genesis 1:26-27, and Genesis 2:24
3. Jesus affirms creation of man and woman "from the beginning"
4. Jesus quotes these passages as authoritative

In upholding God's intention for marriage, Jesus goes all the way back to the first two chapters of Genesis, teaching them as literal and authoritative.
This post was edited on 5/29/25 at 11:50 am
Posted by ole man
Baton Rouge
Member since Nov 2007
18024 posts
Posted on 5/29/25 at 11:24 am to
And that belief was all because of Adam’s sin, not to mention eve ate first and Adam followed
Posted by Wolfhound45
Member since Nov 2009
127383 posts
Posted on 5/29/25 at 11:35 am to
quote:


Me too.

Mark 10:6
Mark 13:19
Posted by L.A.
The Mojave Desert
Member since Aug 2003
66645 posts
Posted on 5/29/25 at 11:36 am to
quote:

In Matthew 19:3-9, Jesus deals with the issue of divorce. He does so by referencing the Pentateuch, and particularly Genesis. Here is the text from the ESV:

3 And Pharisees came up to him and tested him by asking, “Is it lawful to divorce one's wife for any cause?” 4 He answered, “Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, 5 and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.” 7 They said to him, “Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce and to send her away?” 8 He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.”

A few of points to note:

1. Jesus responds to the Pharisees by going back to the Scriptures
2. The Scriptures Jesus references in particular are Genesis 1:26-27, and Genesis 2:24
3. Jesus affirms creation of man and woman "from the beginning"
4. Jesus quotes these passages as authoritative

In upholding God's intention for marriage, Jesus goes all the way back to the first two chapters of Genesis, teaching them as literal and authoritative.

Right, but none of that requires an understanding that the 6 days of creation were 6 literal 24 hour days. One can infer that, and obviously many people do, but it was not explicitly stated by Jesus
Posted by FooManChoo
Member since Dec 2012
46851 posts
Posted on 5/29/25 at 11:47 am to
quote:

Right, but none of that requires an understanding that the 6 days of creation were 6 literal 24 hour days. One can infer that, and obviously many people do, but it was not explicitly stated by Jesus
Correct in that Jesus didn't say that outright.

The clues are in His words "from the beginning", which are also recounted in Mark 10:6 as "from the beginning of creation".

In both passages, Jesus is harkening back to the creation account from the Bible (which He upheld elsewhere as being the word of God), which, on its face, teaches a 6-day, 24-hour creation narrative, and Jesus references back to it while referring to the timeframe as the "beginning".

I understand that some attempt to reconcile the biblical narrative with modern scientific views of an old earth by coming up with theories like Adam and Eve being created millions of years after the Earth and such, but that doesn't seem to fit with Jesus' words.
This post was edited on 5/29/25 at 11:53 am
Posted by Wolfhound45
Member since Nov 2009
127383 posts
Posted on 5/29/25 at 11:57 am to
quote:

Right, but none of that requires an understanding that the 6 days of creation were 6 literal 24 hour days. One can infer that, and obviously many people do, but it was not explicitly stated by Jesus
In the context of the time period and the audience, He absolutely was referring to a six literal days. The audience would not understand what Jesus was saying any other way.

You can disagree with a YEC for a lot of very valid reasons. I take no issue with that. But if you believe the Scripture is authoritative then you are led to believe in a literal, six day creative act.
Posted by L.A.
The Mojave Desert
Member since Aug 2003
66645 posts
Posted on 5/29/25 at 12:01 pm to
quote:

The clues are in His words "from the beginning", which are also recounted in Mark 10:6 as "from the beginning of creation".

In both passages, Jesus is harkening back to the creation account from the Bible (which He upheld elsewhere as being the word of God), which, on its face, teaches a 6-day, 24-hour creation narrative, and Jesus references back to it while referring to the timeframe as the "beginning".

I understand that some attempt to reconcile the biblical narrative with modern scientific views of an old earth by coming up with theories like Adam and Eve being created millions of years after the Earth and such, but that doesn't seem to fit with Jesus' words.

Yes, I'm familiar with the argument. But I'm leery of any rigid belief systems that begin with the words, "The clues are..."

IMO any essential belief would be stated clearly, explicitly, and unequivocally.

For me, Rupertus Meldenius summed it up perfectly

In essentials, unity
In non-essentials, liberty.
In all things, love
Posted by EphesianArmor
Member since Mar 2025
4839 posts
Posted on 5/29/25 at 12:01 pm to
quote:

Plenty of content on YouTube there’s a guy called Morgue who dives deep into Gnosticism their core belief was we are our own God or Gods


Do you mean, 'The Morgile'? If so, his content and perspectives used to be fascinating. Haven't checked him out in a few years.

I agree with his notion that Gnosticism's core belief is self-godhood via occult knowledge & rituals, which would include many cults including all "New Age", Luciferianism, Kabballah, Masonry, Mormonism, Hinduism, etal.
Posted by EphesianArmor
Member since Mar 2025
4839 posts
Posted on 5/29/25 at 12:12 pm to
quote:

we should be at most, agnostic on the matter of the age of the earth.


Why? Is God a liar in Genesis? It's clearly laid out in his 6-Days Creation. (unless you've taken the cue from Bible agnostics and disbelievers that "Days = Millions or Billions of Years".)

quote:

The Bible absolutely does not state clearly what the age is and it's not the point of the creation account anyway.


It doesn't pinpoint it, but the God in Genesisthrough His Holy-Spirit infused inspirational account certainly does purposely reveal the Creation timeline, using the Adamic lineage and lifespans as markers.
Posted by FooManChoo
Member since Dec 2012
46851 posts
Posted on 5/29/25 at 12:16 pm to
quote:

Yes, I'm familiar with the argument. But I'm leery of any rigid belief systems that begin with the words, "The clues are..."

IMO any essential belief would be stated clearly, explicitly, and unequivocally.

For me, Rupertus Meldenius summed it up perfectly

In essentials, unity
In non-essentials, liberty.
In all things, love
My usage of the words "the clues are" was an attempt on my part to be gentle and collegial with my language. I believe that Jesus couldn't have been more clear in what He meant, which is why I provided the reasoning as I did.

The Biblical narrative of creation is self-interpreted by the rest of the Scriptures as being a literal account. Jesus taught so from His words, and Moses did, as well, in recounting the giving of the law where in the 4th commandment is based on creation, being patterned after 6 literal days. Paul references a literal Adam and literal Eve (Rom. 5:12–19; 1 Cor. 15:21–22, 45–49; 2 Cor. 11:3; 1 Tim. 2:13–14) and the author of Hebrews seems to interpret the days of creation as literal (Hebrews 4:3-4).

People can come up with reasons why the Bible doesn't actually teach a young earth, but usually those who are attempting to make the argument already hold an old earth perspective due to being convinced from "science" that the earth is old, and they then want to reconcile the Bible with that belief/agreement. Not always, but usually, because the Bible on its own doesn't indicate long ages in the text.
This post was edited on 5/29/25 at 3:21 pm
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