re: Dispensationalism is a Heresy

You picked the wrong one buddy, you're a fricking nihilist, you're miserable, you wake up everyday, you see the sun shine, you don't know why. You get off on making the the religious seem like imbeciles, you are a scourge to humanity, and frick you for making individuals who believe in something you don't, feel stupid.

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1. Dispensationalists are not the only people who think that Christians are supposed to support the nation of Israel.

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Right. There are multiple varieties of useless (or useful) idiots

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I saw you mentioned going through the narrow gate is faith alone to another poster. I think you have it arse backwards. The wide road with the giant gate is “faith alone”. The narrow gate is a challenge to truly following God’s laws and Jesus’ teachings and not just following the easy bandwagon of “I believe, and that’s all I have to do”.

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The narrow gate is through Christ by faith alone. Mankind wants to add all sorts of requirements to salvation. Jesus refers to himself as the gate of the sheep pen and the only way into the pen is through him. He is the gate.

John 10:9 (NIV):

"I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. They will come in and go out, and find pasture."

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This is funny. You believe in the God-breathed scripture, but when someone provides an “obscure” scripture that confuses you, you dismiss it.

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Not necessarily. There are some verses that are harder to understand than others. However, you can't interpret the bible with one "difficult" verse when there are dozens of other clear ones that are easy to understand. I provided scores of verses that say one must "believe" with no other qualifiers. Can anyone dispute those verses? Harald chose not to.

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I already answered you, but you choose not to comprehend. You gave me a bunch of verses about belief in Jesus. Yes, we must believe, of course. Duh. But Jesus’ own words was that believe, though a requirement, was not simply enough. One must also act and do per God’s will, including keeping the commandments (works of the law). I think you are being obtuse.

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It's becoming quite clear that you are either playing games here or you have very limited biblical knowledge.

Have a good day.

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I like to picture my Jesus with like huge angel wings singing lead vocals for Lynyrd Skynyrd, and I’m in the front row HAMMERED drunk!

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Singing The Smell of Death Surrounds You

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Arguably, I observe the feasts and colossians 2 is defending my position. Do you observe new moons, or feast days? These were still observed until roughly 300CE when catholicism began to have more and more anti-messianic sentiment. The first entury believers still observed all these things.

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I think you missed the point of the passage. The new moons, sabbaths, and feast days, as well as the dietary laws flowed directly out of the Jewish ceremonial laws, which commanded certain foods not to be eaten and certain days to be observed. Paul is saying that those things were shadows of what was to come (v. 17), meaning that those laws were typifying the separation Christians have in Christ, and the cleansing we have by His blood. The OT Jews could only look forward to that day, but in Christ, those things have passed away because they are fulfilled in Christ.

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These verses directly correlate to the added law by the pharisees and not God's Divine Torah.

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Not at all. He doesn't differentiate by kind. Lev. 11 specified clean and unclean animals. 1 Chronicles 23 specifically says that the Levites were to "stand every morning, thanking and praising the Lord, and likewise at evening, and whenever burnt offerings were offered to the Lord on Sabbaths, new moons, and feast days, according to the number required of them, regularly before the Lord."

The people were commanded to observe sabbaths (Lev. 23; 25), feasts (Ex. 23; Lev. 23), and new moons (Num. 10:10; 28), and yet Paul specifically says that those things were shadows of Christ (Col. 2). You'll have to show me where Paul's universal language was only applicable to certain additional feasts, sabbaths, and new moons of the Pharisees.

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(Unril heaven and earth pass away, Not one jot or tittle shall pass from the law until all is fulfilled, last I checked heaven and earth are not gone, therefore the Torah still stands).

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Verse 17 (right before this one) further clarifies that Jesus did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. The law commanded could not be obeyed perfectly by us, but required Jesus to fulfill it for us perfectly. It pointed to Him and His fulfillment of it on our behalf. The ceremonial laws in particular highlighted the need for separation from sin and the world, which was typified by Israel being separated from the other nations. The sacrifices were performed over and over again because the blood of bulls and goats cannot do anything in themselves to remove sin, but those pointed to a once-for-all sacrifice of Jesus.

Do you think the Torah law of the sacrifices is included in the law that Christians are to continue to observe? If not, why not, if your interpretation is correct about the law?

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Now as far as Romans 13, Paul's concern here isn't whether Torah laws are valid, but how believers with different levels of Torah knowledge and practice can live together peacefully. The "weak" and "strong" aren't categories of Torah-observant versus non-observant, but rather refer to different understandings within the believing community.Verses 14-15 - Contextual Understanding:"I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean."From a Messianic view, Paul isn't overturning kashrut (dietary laws) here. The Greek word "koinos" (unclean) refers to ritual impurity, not the fundamental distinction between clean and unclean animals in Leviticus 11. The issue is likely about:Meat offered to idols, Food prepared by Gentiles without proper ritual washing vegetables that might have been fertilized with unclean substances, etc.

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While Paul here uses meat and drink as an example, he's talking about anything that is "clean" or "unclean". Paul speaks of observing days (holy days, feasts, festivals, etc.), as well, so it isn't just about the food he's referring to. He's speaking of Christian liberty in Christ to no longer be bound by the law against such restrictions of clean and unclean (which the dietary laws were a subset of).

Eating foods sacrificed to idols were not an exclusively Gentile issue, though. There was a Torah command against it (Ex. 34:15) that was part of the condemnation of Israel (Num. 25:2; Ps. 106:28). Given that a major issue in the early Church was the Judaizers telling newly-converted Gentiles that they needed to obey the Torah in addition to faith in Christ (such as being circumcized), it makes sense that the Gentiles were being taught by Paul not to let their consciences be held captive to such laws.

To your point about the levels of Torah knowledge: that just doesn't make sense. God in the Old Testament had such an emphasis on teaching and memorizing the law exactly for that reason, so that the people would not be ignorant of it. If Paul was simply concerned with their level of knowledge, he would have told them to obey rightly, as he did in other instances when he taught them behavior suitable for Christians. If nothing had changed according to the law, Paul was actually leading the people astray here.

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And finally in 1Timothy, here is described the practice of that like the Nicolaitans, which many of their practices resemble that of the belief of the Roman church...forbidding to marry (their priests) forcibly abstaining from clean meats (ex. fish on fridays). Which none of those things are ever forbidden in Torah, like for any reason.

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While I agree that Paul was teaching against such practices that are found today in Roman Catholicism, that wasn't exactly the point I was making with that reference. Paul says, "For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, for it is made holy by the word of God and prayer."

This language ties back to Paul's statement in Romans 14:14 regarding all food being clean. If all food is clean, then that includes foods that Nicolaitans or Judaizers who demanded that Christians abstain from certain foods (whether shellfish or something else). Paul's argument in both passages is that God made all things good, and we are not restricted in what we may eat or drink any longer, whether it be a type of food (a particular animal) or food prepared for a particular use (used in pagan sacrifices).

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Again I understand these positions, this is something I came to knowledge of 20 years ago and believe that catholicism is mostly the reason why the modern church has become estranged to the ways of God.

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You won't find any argument from me that the Roman Catholic Church has added to the Scriptures of God and teach things contrary to what God has revealed to us in His word, but I don't think they are the problem with this particular issue.

I'm running out of characters to respond and I think I've gotten to the point here, so I won't belabor it.

I'm happy to call you brother if you are trusting in Jesus' work to reconcile sinners through His perfect obedience, death, and resurrection on the cross. I think we have a disagreement on which laws we are to obey out of thankfulness rather than out of meritorious effort (which we seem to agree with each other on, over and against the Roman Catholics)

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So your textiles are pure?

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My textiles aren’t “pure”.

Leviticus 19:19
“You shall keep my statutes. You shall not let your cattle breed with a different kind. You shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed, nor shall you wear a garment of cloth made of two kinds of material.”

And Deuteronomy 22:11
“You shall not wear cloth of wool and linen mixed together.”

They both seem to prohibit wearing garments of mixed fibers or maybe wearing two garments of each pure material. But wait, the Bible actually contradicts itself…

Exodus 28:6-8
“And they shall make the ephod of gold, of blue and purple and scarlet yarns, and of fine twined linen, skillfully worked.
It shall have two shoulder pieces attached to its two edges, so that it may be joined together.
And the skillfully woven band on it shall be made like it and be of one piece with it, of gold, blue and purple and scarlet yarns, and fine twined linen.”

Exodus 39:1
“You shall make a breastpiece of judgment, in skilled work. In the style of the ephod you shall make it—of gold, blue and purple and scarlet yarns, and fine twined linen shall you make it.”

Exodus 39:29
“And the sash of fine twined linen and blue and purple and scarlet yarns, embroidered with needlework, as the Lord had commanded Moses.”

But upon further investigation there is no contradiction. It is the priests of the sacrificial temple that are to wear mixed fibers. The common folk are forbidden from wearing mixed fibers because that is reserved for the priests. But there isn’t a sacrificial temple anymore, and Jesus was sacrificed as the ultimate sacrifice to replace the temple sacrifices, therefore the priestly garments and the prohibition of the common folk are obsolete. That is my interpretation.

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Your food is kosher?

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Jesus himself said no food is unclean. It’s not what you put into your mouth but what comes out of your mouth (your words) that can defile yourself.

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You uphold the festivals?

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Yes, just like any Jewish family today. Passover on Nisan 14, and most importantly Yom Kippur on Tishrei 10. When God said to keep these festivals forever, and keep the Sabbath forever, maybe we should actually do what he commanded forever. Where Jesus clarified and superseded God’s original commandments, we should listen. Where Jesus reinforced God’s existing commandments, we should listen too.