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Started By
Message
re: Did Trump ever believe he could stop Ukraine War on Day One?
Posted on 5/28/25 at 10:06 am to TenWheelsForJesus
Posted on 5/28/25 at 10:06 am to TenWheelsForJesus
“The fact that you think Trump was literally going to end the war within 12 hours of being inaugurated”
I think there is only one person on the planet earth that actually thought this.
I think there is only one person on the planet earth that actually thought this.
0
Posted on 5/28/25 at 10:11 am to IvoryBillMatt
quote:Yes. Trump did not anticipate Congressional Dems meeting with Zelinskyy in advance of an Oval Office Meeting and encouraging him to tell Trump to pound sand, essentially scuttling the entire process.
Did Trump ever believe he could stop Ukraine War on Day One?
Posted on 5/28/25 at 10:13 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Yes. Trump did not anticipate Congressional Dems meeting with Zelinskyy in advance of an Oval Office Meeting and encouraging him to tell Trump to pound sand, essentially scuttling the entire process.
That's a good point. Was it just Dems?
Posted on 5/28/25 at 10:15 am to IvoryBillMatt
I'm going to paste this from a different thread talking about a completely different subject but, yet, is perfectly applicable to this discussion and digression
quote:
This MAGA duality where, on one hand, Trump is the greatest negotiator in history and even his losses are really discrete wins, but on the other, he can't get anything done because of [fill in the blank...Congress, EU, Ukraine, "The Deep State," "globalists", etc.] has always been fascinating.
Posted on 5/28/25 at 10:15 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Yes. Trump did not anticipate
Seems to be a common theme.
Everyone knew when he made the proclamation that he was full of shite.
Posted on 5/28/25 at 10:17 am to IvoryBillMatt
I don't think Trump ever really considered if it could be (or cared). Trump says whatever he wants and doesn't really concern himself with the details of the truth of his exaggerations.
I do think he thinks he's pragmatic and a dealmaker and is better situated to end the conflict than anyone else, and he may be partly right.
I think Z is more stubborn than he expected, but I also think he's probably been fed information from the intelligence community about what sustaining the war on Ukraine's behalf has accomplished in America's interest (whether we believe/agree or not), and has been influenced by that.
This happens all the time with relative outsiders at all levels of government. Rightly or wrongly (and it's probably a mix), they get into power and decide "hey, there actually are some pretty legitimate reasons why we are/aren't doing ______" and that runs afoul of comments they made while out of office about the simplicity of a given issue.
I do think he thinks he's pragmatic and a dealmaker and is better situated to end the conflict than anyone else, and he may be partly right.
I think Z is more stubborn than he expected, but I also think he's probably been fed information from the intelligence community about what sustaining the war on Ukraine's behalf has accomplished in America's interest (whether we believe/agree or not), and has been influenced by that.
This happens all the time with relative outsiders at all levels of government. Rightly or wrongly (and it's probably a mix), they get into power and decide "hey, there actually are some pretty legitimate reasons why we are/aren't doing ______" and that runs afoul of comments they made while out of office about the simplicity of a given issue.
Posted on 5/28/25 at 10:19 am to IvoryBillMatt
quote:Yes
Was it just Dems?
Posted on 5/28/25 at 10:20 am to RogerTheShrubber
Does the art of the deal NOT have a chapter on anticipating?
Today he’s a master negotiator, tomorrow he’s innocent amateur that doesn’t anticipate all scenarios
Today he’s a master negotiator, tomorrow he’s innocent amateur that doesn’t anticipate all scenarios
Posted on 5/28/25 at 10:21 am to Pettifogger
quote:
I don't think Trump ever really considered if it could be (or cared). Trump says whatever he wants and doesn't really concern himself with the details of the truth of his exaggerations.
I agree. This is basically what I said.
quote:
I think Z is more stubborn than he expected, but I also think he's probably been fed information from the intelligence community about what sustaining the war on Ukraine's behalf has accomplished in America's interest (whether we believe/agree or not), and has been influenced by that.
He also has the EU allegedly backing him even if the US leaves, so his position to continue the war can theoretically be done without the US and gives him negotiating power over Trump.
Putin clearly has negotiating power over Trump and has no desire to back down or give up anything in negotiations.
We always talk about how great of a negotiator and dealmaker Trump is, but this is one of the few times he didn't start from a complete advantage and multiple outlets to claim victory. There is a clear goal that must be achieved (peace deal) so the moving target/malleable goal strategy isn't really on the table for him this time.
Posted on 5/28/25 at 10:22 am to AGGIES
quote:
Today he’s a master negotiator, tomorrow he’s innocent amateur that doesn’t anticipate all scenarios
Yep, these narratives are so tiring.
He's either a shitty leader or the most gullible human thats ever lived.
Posted on 5/28/25 at 10:25 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
There is a clear goal that must be achieved (peace deal) so the moving target/malleable goal strategy isn't really on the table for him this time.
Agreed, at least to some extent, and it's a good point hitting on the underlying theme of Trump negotiations (shifting definitions of wins).
But how the peace comes about, who ends up on the better end of it, etc. are malleable and hence Trump is "switching sides" so as to claim influence/victory all the same.
Posted on 5/28/25 at 10:59 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Everyone knew when he made the proclamation that he was full of shite.
Posted on 5/28/25 at 11:02 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
NC_Tigah
Funny, people here loathe Trumps amateur act, even his loyalists in one of the most conservative States.
Evidently we're more in tune with reality than you.
Did Trump end the war day one like he promised? Just a yes or no
Posted on 5/28/25 at 11:05 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
SlowFlowPro
That Low IQ shining bright today
Posted on 5/28/25 at 11:21 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:Lisa Murkowski's reelection speaks perfectly to that California-lite attitude
Funny, people here loathe Trumps amateur act, even his loyalists in one of the most conservative States.
Evidently we're more in tune with reality than you.
This post was edited on 5/28/25 at 11:22 am
Posted on 5/28/25 at 11:28 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
quote:
Was it just Dems?
Yes
Uh no
LINK
quote:
Graham said he urged Zelenskyy ahead of the meeting with Trump not to "take the bait," but he wasn't the only one, sources told ABC News. They noted that Graham was very blunt, telling Zelenskyy to "suck up a bit" and thank the president extensively.
But senators on both sides of the aisle tried to provide Zelenskyy with "friendly coaching," according to two people who were in the room during the bipartisan meeting with the Ukrainian leader.
Graham tried to warn him he was walking into a room with a toddler on a temper tantrum.
Posted on 5/28/25 at 11:34 am to atlgamecockman
quote:
Graham tried to warn him he was walking into a room with a toddler on a temper tantrum.
As someone who wants us divorced from Ukraine, I thought the White House dust up was planned. The fact that Ukraine was not cut off right away suggests that it wasn't.
Posted on 5/28/25 at 11:48 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Lisa Murkowski's reelection speaks perfectly to that California-lite attitude
Trump was elected here with no problems. Lisa is a oil company prop.
Thats what happens when a State becomes more urbanized. It loses its values.
Posted on 5/28/25 at 11:49 am to IvoryBillMatt
Day 1, no, but I think he thought he could get some control of the IC with USAID being defunded and Ratcliff, Tulsi and Rubio in charge.
This post was edited on 5/28/25 at 2:25 pm
Posted on 5/28/25 at 11:59 am to IvoryBillMatt
oh look, another TDS post from IvoryBill(I'masmagaasanyone)Matt.
You really should see a therapist. Or just quit the internet.
You really should see a therapist. Or just quit the internet.
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