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re: Did the Rebecca Lobach scrubbing accomplish anything?
Posted on 2/3/25 at 5:10 am to 257WBY
Posted on 2/3/25 at 5:10 am to 257WBY
quote:
If the helo had lost visual, they should have said so.
The pilot had only 500 hrs. of flying. The ATC should not have assumed that he was dealing with a very experienced pilot. That airport is not a typical airport. It is a highly congested area. Many pilots have stated that at night with all the surrounding lights blending in you should not rely on visual separation alone. The inexperienced pilot was wrong and so was the ATC. Their errors combined led to a great tragedy.
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Posted on 2/3/25 at 5:11 am to Mandtgr47
quote:Good god, I know it’s asking a lot, but THINK.
Wow. You people know no boundaries to defend your own people.
quote:I’m going to give you a logic problem. You have 2 aircraft on a converging course in close proximity on altitude.
On top of it, you are trying to act like you understand ATC
Do you
A - tell the aircraft which is very maneuverable to turn out of the converging path
B - trust the pilot of said maneuverable craft to see it and avoid it
The answer in this instance was B, and a bunch of people got killed. Who is at fault?
The pilot, for giving a response they had neither the experience nor the skill to execute. Once they gave that response, they were absolutely responsible for what happened.
AND primarily the ATC for giving them the decision to make in the first place. If they go with option A, which in the comments of his link have someone who identifies themselves as a 42 year ATC veteran is an extremely logical decision.
Trusting anyone, regardless of their knowledge or experience to make a visual at night in that circumstance is insane. I suspect if the records from previous days are reviewed we will think it’s a miracle it hasn’t happened before this.
Posted on 2/3/25 at 5:22 am to 257WBY
quote:Indeed. However as his link pointed out, probably couldn’t have even seen the plane due to the copter orientation (nose down) or possibly thought they did and it was another plane. So giving that response IMO shows the lack of knowledge or experience of the pilot.
The overlying issue is you don’t understand that visual separation is used constantly in the National Airspace System and it would grind to a halt if it wasn’t. If the helo had lost visual, they should have said so.
quote:While true, in this case you don’t have a plane that’s going to fly into a building because it can’t stop.
But the rule book isn’t a big fan of vectoring aircraft at 100’ because there’s a lot of obstructions and terrain features that low.
Put yourself in the ATC seat. You can see you have two aircraft on a converging course at similar altitude. That’s very clear on the link.
What do you do?
Posted on 2/3/25 at 5:24 am to jake wade
Many pilots familiar with the airport have stated that in such a congested area the surrounding lights tend to blend together. A visual separation at night is not easy especially for a pilot with 500 hrs. of flight time. The ATC made an assumption that the chopper pilot had visualized the American Airlines plane. It was an assumption that got a lot of people killed.
The aircraft were closing in at a combined speed of 280. There was not a lot of time to dick around. There is no excuse for not seeing that the chopper was not doing what it was told to do by looking at the radar. The ATC should have informed the chopper of an imminent collision and that it needed to turn and descend. Clearly, both chopper pilots made mistakes as did the ATC.
The aircraft were closing in at a combined speed of 280. There was not a lot of time to dick around. There is no excuse for not seeing that the chopper was not doing what it was told to do by looking at the radar. The ATC should have informed the chopper of an imminent collision and that it needed to turn and descend. Clearly, both chopper pilots made mistakes as did the ATC.
Posted on 2/3/25 at 5:33 am to Goforit
As VDH said a foundational error or mistake was having any type of aircraft training crossing one of the busiest landing paths in the USA. There are many other areas for training that don’t endanger civilians.
The fact that she was a woke lesbian does instantly give the appearance she may have been promoted beyond her ability such as the lesbian SS, or the lesbian fire chiefs, or the Lesbian Police chiefs.
QWould a competent pilot not caused the wreck. We all better hope so…..
The fact that she was a woke lesbian does instantly give the appearance she may have been promoted beyond her ability such as the lesbian SS, or the lesbian fire chiefs, or the Lesbian Police chiefs.
QWould a competent pilot not caused the wreck. We all better hope so…..
Posted on 2/3/25 at 5:38 am to jake wade
quote:
First I’ve heard she was a lesbian.
According to her parents, she was someone's "partner".
Posted on 2/3/25 at 5:39 am to llfshoals
quote:
hear on the recording we can hear is absolutely insane.
Hug the coast line and they “pass behind” the plane.
Posted on 2/3/25 at 5:40 am to Goforit
quote:
He said there were a series of mistakes made by multiple people
Most accidents always entail a number of things done wrong or unfortunate happenstance that leads to the final catastrophe.
Posted on 2/3/25 at 5:40 am to Mandtgr47
quote:If you can’t see the ATC made a terrible call there I don’t know what to say. I could possibly see the “pass behind” instruction if they are flying at an angle to one another, but not when they are flying at each other, which is going to reduce reaction time dramatically.
As a former ATC, you are doing nothing but supporting the woke dead pilot, with no facts whatsoever.
quote:Which I said put the blame on the pilot at that point if you could stop for about a second and THINK.
Here are the facts. The weather was VFR conditions. The chopper was cleared, traffic was given, and the chopper pilot acknowledged site of the jet. AT that point, the chopper pilot took over full responsibility and released by ATC, which is standard practice.
They never should have gotten the option to make the decision in the first place. No matter how horrible an idea it was to put them in the pilots seat in the first place.
And again, two things can be true. You even pointed it out. Staffing (and frankly probably training) on the ATC side as well as the pilot side.
quote:I’m hoping someone will make that point, given our experience in government, particularly congressional hearings (which I’m sure will happen) I’m not optimistic.
However, they are in a tight spot, because in doing so, they will be pointing the finger at DEI hires of ATC.
Posted on 2/3/25 at 5:44 am to Zgeo
quote:
As VDH said a foundational error or mistake was having any type of aircraft training crossing one of the busiest landing paths in the USA. There are many other areas for training that don’t endanger civilians.
The explanation I have heard is that she was being trained for a specific type of mission that involves evacuating government officials from DC in the event of an attack.
So, there really wasn't anywhere else to go to train for such a mission.
Posted on 2/3/25 at 5:52 am to Mandtgr47
quote:
WHAT ATC DID WAS CLEAR THE PILOT IN WHICH THE PILOT ACKNOWLEDGED A VISUAL OF THE JET.
The person who confirmed visuals of the jet was the male instructor. Seems like someone who's an experienced "war fighter" and not a DEI lesbo would be able to pick out the right jet? I bet this guy worked for Biden too
Posted on 2/3/25 at 5:54 am to Stinger_1066
quote:I get that is a mission that needs some practice, and while I would disagree on the necessity of the location, I can’t argue too strongly against it.
The explanation I have heard is that she was being trained for a specific type of mission that involves evacuating government officials from DC in the event of an attack.
I would however have to question the sanity of anyone ordering that mission with a green pilot in that congested airspace.
Posted on 2/3/25 at 5:56 am to idlewatcher
quote:
Her name will be etched in infamy for killing 70+ people
Yalls outrage is misdirected. She was doing the best she could. She made a tragic mistake. She and 66 others paid a terrible price for her mistake.
The outrage should not be directed at her. She is dead. Your outrage needs to be directed at others. Why was she there? Those people are ultimately to blame.
If energy is directed towards her, nothing gets fixed. If your goal is to prevent this in the future it should be directed at the root cause.
Why was she doing training flights in an area with so much civilian air traffic? Was she given preferential treatment based on something other than ability. Why were there not enough air traffic controllers for that night and the previous 30 years? Why were they not told a heading to follow, instead of relying on them simply avoiding the collision using there own eyes. If that is sop then maybe that needs to change.
Posted on 2/3/25 at 5:57 am to llfshoals
There is a lot of hate from folks on this board. A servicemember died and yes it was tragic and yes she may be at fault for the accident. Who knows at this point. But the idea that the Alex Jones types think this needs to be turned into some attack on the person is just beyond the pale. This type of hate is going to blow up the MAGA movement quicker than many think.
Posted on 2/3/25 at 5:59 am to hansenthered1
More questions and the internet sleuths will dig out the answers!!
Posted on 2/3/25 at 6:01 am to Stinger_1066
quote:
We all know she was a woke lesbian politically connected Dem who was given preference over others
How do we know this?
Posted on 2/3/25 at 6:05 am to hansenthered1
quote:
This type of hate is going to blow up the MAGA movement quicker than many think.
The MAGA moment just started its 9th year. How quick will it end?
Why did 70 people die that day? Do you think the Army is letting only the most skilled pilots fly? Do you think the ATC are hiring more qualified white men over lessor qualified bipoc people?
Did you not find it odd her name was released nearly a day later after her social media was deleted.
You are right. There is a lot of hate here. I hate that 70 people needlessly died because of bullshite woke ideology.
Posted on 2/3/25 at 6:09 am to Slingscode
quote:
How do we know this?
We know she was lesbian because she was a lesbian.
We know she was political connected as she worked for Joe Biden White House as an escort.
I’ve not seen anything that says she is “woke” per se. But you don’t have to be Sherlock Holmes to deduce she was big in the LGBTQIA-Maps+ community.
Posted on 2/3/25 at 6:11 am to Stinger_1066
quote:
And what is with all the people referring to her as a hero?
She flew her helicopter into a plane, like a dumbass. Who tf is calling her a hero?
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