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re: Dennis Prager on why poverty does NOT cause crime
Posted on 11/18/14 at 12:17 pm to L.A.
Posted on 11/18/14 at 12:17 pm to L.A.
Stop making excuses for people being lazy as hell and "believe" they have no opportunities. That's complete and total horseshite and it pisses me off beyond end when people fall for this fricking lie.
I grew up poor as dirt. There were days when we didn't even have power, days when we didn't even have hope. You know what that taught me? It taught me that I didn't want to be poor as dirt. You know what working at a minimum wage job taught me? It taught me that I didn't want to work at a minimum wage job very long.
I didn't protest with some damn "Imma git minz" attitude. It didn't morph my thinking to making me believe I'm oppressed by "the man." It made me work my arse to the bone and volunteer for every shite project at work that came up even if it was at all hours of the night until someone noticed.
Hard work and determination mean something even if the suck arse liberals have brainwashed a large portion of our population into believing otherwise.
I grew up poor as dirt. There were days when we didn't even have power, days when we didn't even have hope. You know what that taught me? It taught me that I didn't want to be poor as dirt. You know what working at a minimum wage job taught me? It taught me that I didn't want to work at a minimum wage job very long.
I didn't protest with some damn "Imma git minz" attitude. It didn't morph my thinking to making me believe I'm oppressed by "the man." It made me work my arse to the bone and volunteer for every shite project at work that came up even if it was at all hours of the night until someone noticed.
Hard work and determination mean something even if the suck arse liberals have brainwashed a large portion of our population into believing otherwise.
This post was edited on 11/18/14 at 12:20 pm
1
Posted on 11/18/14 at 12:21 pm to TN Bhoy
quote:
Your historical illiteracy is hilarious.
i've posted many anti-asian laws to big scrub before and he just ignores it. many lasted into the 20th century
plus then there was the whole internment thing during WW2
Posted on 11/18/14 at 12:28 pm to Hawkeye95
quote:
Poverty does not cause crime, lack of opportunity causes crime.
bullshite. Getting a job is extremely easy in the U.S. All you have to do is:
a. show up for work
b. be polite to the customers
The ability to read, write or do arithmetic is a plus but not necessary.
Posted on 11/18/14 at 12:40 pm to L.A.
I diskike these arguments because rather than accepting that poverty is one of many risk factors that contributes (causes is too strong is a word for me) to crime, he dismisses it it's entirety. It provides a overly simplistic view, and is no better than those that pretend that poverty is the sole contributor.
His cell phone argument was especially weak. It seems about 10 years too late given that they commonly replace home phones and it's now a societal expectation to have a cell phone. Granted some people overdo it, but it's too archaic of an argument.
His cell phone argument was especially weak. It seems about 10 years too late given that they commonly replace home phones and it's now a societal expectation to have a cell phone. Granted some people overdo it, but it's too archaic of an argument.
This post was edited on 11/18/14 at 12:42 pm
Posted on 11/18/14 at 12:58 pm to TN Bhoy
quote:
Your historical illiteracy is hilarious.
Please link to a comparative analysis of the treatment of Asians in the 1930's vs treatment of blacks in the 1930's which concludes even the hint of relative equivalence.
Posted on 11/18/14 at 12:59 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
i've posted many anti-asian laws to big scrub before and he just ignores it. many lasted into the 20th century
You have? I missed that. Please post them again. I will happily look at them with an open mind.
quote:
plus then there was the whole internment thing during WW2
As bad as that was, that is not what we are talking about and you know it. (And I've read Malkin's book on the topic and largely agree with her).
Posted on 11/18/14 at 1:01 pm to bamarep
quote:
I didn't protest with some damn "Imma git minz" attitude. It didn't morph my thinking to making me believe I'm oppressed by "the man." It made me work my arse to the bone and volunteer for every shite project at work that came up even if it was at all hours of the night until someone noticed.
And perhaps that's because, despite being poor, you WEREN'T being oppressed by the man. Black people were. Their advancement was being actively prevented by a violent government and society.
That's the thing about privilege - when it's the very air your breathe, it's almost impossible for you to notice it as privilege.
Posted on 11/18/14 at 1:03 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
The part that is blaringly omitted is that Prager's family was white.
Shame on them for being born that way. Tsk, tsk.
Posted on 11/18/14 at 1:05 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
And perhaps that's because, despite being poor, you WEREN'T being oppressed by the man. Black people were. Their advancement was being actively prevented by a violent government and society. That's the thing about privilege - when it's the very air your breathe, it's almost impossible for you to notice it as privilege.
You're either a very bitter black person, or a person with a case of white guilt that borders on the pathological. There is no third choice.
Posted on 11/18/14 at 1:07 pm to Godfather1
quote:
You're either a very bitter black person, or a person with a case of white guilt that borders on the pathological. There is no third choice.
No, the third choice is "objective student of history". It speaks volumes that white people on this board can't simply admit that their white parents and grandparents had a big leg up on black folks of the same generation...and that that leg up consisted of state and citizen violence against black people and their advancement. Seriously, this is settled history. Why are you in denial?
Posted on 11/18/14 at 1:11 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
"objective student of history".
Who has an obsession with race.
I'll go with what's behind door #2.
Posted on 11/18/14 at 1:15 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
It speaks volumes that white people on this board can't simply admit that their white parents and grandparents had a big leg up on black folks of the same generation.
I'm not going to deny the obvious - there was institutional bias against blacks that persisted for a long time.
However, that does not change the fact that the recipe for getting out is laughably simple - stay in school, refrain from criminal conduct, don't have children out of wedlock and work at any sort of job. You don't have to have rich parents, an Ivy league eduction or white skin to do these things. Like the biblical promise of salvation, it is so simple that people refuse to believe it.
It would work for 98% of black kids - but that message isn't being pushed by their parents, peers, or daresay, even their educators. And it would work despite salvery through the mid-19th century, Jim Crow through the mid-20th century and residual effects of those persisting today.
Posted on 11/18/14 at 1:15 pm to Zach
quote:
Getting a job is extremely easy in the U.S. All you have to do is:
a. show up for work
b. be polite to the customers
The ability to read, write or do arithmetic is a plus but not necessary.
getting a job != opportunity.
Anyway, what causes crime?
Posted on 11/18/14 at 1:19 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
there was institutional bias against blacks that persisted for a long time.
That is an incredibly glib/facile way of stating it, IMO. Let's call it what it actually was: state-sponsored terror against an entire group of citizens.
quote:
However, that does not change the fact that the recipe for getting out is laughably simple - stay in school, refrain from criminal conduct, don't have children out of wedlock and work at any sort of job. You don't have to have rich parents, an Ivy league eduction or white skin to do these things. Like the biblical promise of salvation, it is so simple that people refuse to believe it.
Yes, but...the government and society so fully marginalized and ghettoized many blacks that it led to lingering, generational destructive effects. It's easy to list the things on your list...much harder to stick to if the government and other citizens were actively impeding you or outright stealing from you.
Even just in the late 80's, I'm sure you're aware of drug sentencing laws that were passed re crack which very clearly were done with the intent of incarcerating large numbers of blacks vs whites and their cocaine habits. All of that wasn't on accident. Nor was it based on reality. It was a coordinated effort.
Posted on 11/18/14 at 1:21 pm to Hawkeye95
quote:
getting a job != opportunity
It's about as good a means as I can think of to opening the door to many.
Posted on 11/18/14 at 1:23 pm to Godfather1
quote:
Who has an obsession with race.
I have a strong interest in combatting the obsession with race that this board evidently has (just take a quick glance at how many threads are started on the topic), as the level of misinformation and the NEAR COMPLETE ignoring/ignorance of history is shocking and dispiriting. I mean, you really can't even get people to admit that their grandparents had it better than black people. and BTW...this is mission accomplished for those who designed things such as Jim Crow - marginalize, terrorize and intimidate an entire population to the point where the future privileged class views the ENTIRE THING as the fault of the disenfranchised class. It's despicable.
Posted on 11/18/14 at 1:24 pm to Big Scrub TX
Any group of people with high teenage pregnancies, drug use and no stable family is going to remain poor regardless of color. Any group of people who view school as a day care center is going to remain poor. Whether that is a trailer park or ghetto the attitudes is often the same. If you have a group of people that think everyone lives like that then they will always be blaming some one other than themselves.
Posted on 11/18/14 at 1:25 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
I have a strong interest in combatting the obsession with race that this board evidently has (just take a quick glance at how many threads are started on the topic),
It seems to me, especially lately, there's more people here obsessed with this board's supposed "obsession with race" than there is any genuine obsession with race.
But, I suppose a lot of this is in the eye of the beholder and people seeing what they want to see.
Posted on 11/18/14 at 1:25 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
Even just in the late 80's, I'm sure you're aware of drug sentencing laws that were passed re crack which very clearly were done with the intent of incarcerating large numbers of blacks vs whites and their cocaine habits.
that wasn't why the guidelines were imposed
quote:
Nor was it based on reality.
well the crack boom did have real effects
now was it an emotional reaction? yes. was its portrayal severely emotional and slanted? yes
but it was not racist. at all.
and i hate the war on drugs, minimum sentencing, restrictions for felony convictions, and all of that across the board
i hate the fact that jim crow and other state-sponsored segregation (for multiple races and ethnicities) was the law of many areas
i hate the way that the welfare state and great society policies have destroyed the black family and "marginalized and ghettoized many blacks", as you put it
this is why government should not have that sort of power
Posted on 11/18/14 at 1:25 pm to Y.A. Tittle
quote:
It's about as good a means as I can think of to opening the door to many.
I used to think this and obviously I think every citizen should engage in productive labor...but the American Dream as sold to generations past is largely a myth at this point. What used to be "stair step" jobs to better jobs really are just truly dead-end now. Go take a look at real earnings over the past few decades and you will see that there has been a real stagnation for the rising class.
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