- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Deindustrialization - Have We Become a Poor Country?
Posted on 12/17/23 at 12:45 pm to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 12/17/23 at 12:45 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
but also likely thwart all the illegal immigration and solidify the border.
LOL at this naïveté
1
Posted on 12/17/23 at 12:50 pm to Champagne
quote:
We are going to be largely a civilian service economy
That depends on our civilians. We're importing people to do low level labor right
Posted on 12/17/23 at 12:55 pm to AbuTheMonkey
quote:
American manufacturing output is, quite literally, 1 1/2 times that of the entire Russian economy altogether and almost 10 times that of Russian manufacturing output. You quite literally could not be more wrong that they produce more shite.
You’re looking at dollar values and that’s misleading you. American industrial output is is very limited. The reason the dollar value is so high, is because much of the get we’re selling are nuclear reactors, or aircraft, civilian or military, which are incredibly expensive. This inflates the overall value while obscuring a very real material weakness, and it’s why Ukraine is losing, we have a massive GDP, but it’s largely rooted in our service economy, and it doesn’t translate directly into military or industrial production. The Russians can crank out 3 million rounds of 152mm a year. We can produce around 336,000 a year of 155mm currently. And this after almost two years of fighting in Ukraine. And our GDP is 12x times higher than theirs. This deficiency mirrored down the line, if it’s a military good, odds are the Russians have a much larger manufacturing base for it, and can produce it in much greater numbers than we can, with whatever our equivalent is. Russia is an almost self sufficient economy, there’s little they need to import, and that again is a strength. As Raytheon noted, we would have trouble going to war against China, because the basic components in their missiles are manufactured in China.
This post was edited on 12/17/23 at 12:57 pm
Posted on 12/17/23 at 2:16 pm to Elblancodiablo
quote:
What does leftism, or any political ideology, have to do with the average intelligence of working americans?
They aren't dumb enough to learn basic skills.
Only leftists profess we ignore shedding personal responsibility in order to promote redistributive welfare programs. That's literally what you're arguing for, so I assumed you were a leftist.
Posted on 12/17/23 at 2:17 pm to thebigmuffaletta
quote:
LOL at this naïveté
Illegal immigrants are economic migrants. Improve their economic status at home and they won't come here
Posted on 12/17/23 at 2:23 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:
. American industrial output is is very limited.
Incorrect.
quote:
The reason the dollar value is so high, is because much of the get we’re selling are nuclear reactors, or aircraft, civilian or military, which are incredibly expensive.
Somewhat correct. The per capita value on our manufactured goods is high.
That's a good thing.
You want us to devolve and lower our economic status/output and standard of living to produce less valuable goods. You do see the problems with that strategy, right? Why do you think it's a good strategy to make us poorer?
quote:
and it’s why Ukraine is losing,
If we were allowed to engage fully, manufacturing output would be irrelevant, because we'd win (rather quickly) with that high value output.
quote:
The Russians can crank out 3 million rounds of 152mm a year. We can produce around 336,000 a year of 155mm currently.
Because we invest in, produce, and rely on other military technology instead. Why would we fight a war like Russia is doing? To stalemate against a poor country?
quote:
if it’s a military good, odds are the Russians have a much larger manufacturing base for it,
Except for advanced things like air and navy, which are our primary military technologies.
quote:
Russia is an almost self sufficient economy, there’s little they need to import, and that again is a strength.
If being a shitty economy with a bad stanard of living is a strength, sure.
quote:
As Raytheon noted, we would have trouble going to war against China, because the basic components in their missiles are manufactured in China.
And China would have problem paying anyone or having any sort of economy whatsoever, if this happened. Trade is a 2-way street.
Why would China ever go to war with us? They literally can't survive without our market buying their goods. We would have our life disrupted, sure, but we can get manufacturing set up in time in many other places. There isn't an economy on earth that can replace the US.
Posted on 12/17/23 at 2:25 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:
This inflates the overall value while obscuring a very real material weakness
What? It isn't inflating any value. It is what the market pays.
quote:
it’s largely rooted in our service economy, and it doesn’t translate directly into military or industrial production
My god. Your notion of economics is based on 'resource = product.' It explains your idiotic notions of autarky and your inability to understand sovereign debt.
quote:
The Russians can crank out 3 million rounds of 152mm a year. We can produce around 336,000 a year of 155mm currently. And this after almost two years of fighting in Ukraine. And our GDP is 12x times higher than theirs.
You realize he already addressed this in his post. If the US oriented its economy to beating Russia, it could do so easily.
quote:
This deficiency mirrored down the line, if it’s a military good, odds are the Russians have a much larger manufacturing base for it, and can produce it in much greater numbers than we can, with whatever our equivalent is.
And this has translated to them becoming bogged down in a former sphere of influence, unable to dominate in the air, only taking defensive positions. It's literally 'numbers big = good' logic that the Russians themselves favor.
quote:
Russia is an almost self sufficient economy
You keep saying this and it doesn't become closer to being true despite how much you repeat it.
quote:
there’s little they need to import, and that again is a strength
Amazing.
quote:
As Raytheon noted, we would have trouble going to war against China, because the basic components in their missiles are manufactured in China.
But we can build the infrastructure relatively quickly to have the basic components constructed in several areas. Things can change quickly.
Posted on 12/17/23 at 6:30 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
But we can build the infrastructure relatively quickly to have the basic components constructed in several areas. Things can change quickly.
If that was true we would have defeated Russia in Ukraine.
Rebuilding, for example, our shipbuilding capacity would take 15 to 20 years. This isn’t the 1940s where we could retool existing plants for wartime production, critically, we also don’t have the trained workforce for it either.
quote:
If the US oriented its economy to beating Russia, it could do so easily.
If Ukraine is so important, if winning is so vital, and retooling our economy is so easy, then why didn’t we do that?
Are we choosing to actively sabotage Ukraine then?
Why do we want Ukraine to lose?
quote:
And this has translated to them becoming bogged down in a former sphere of influence, unable to dominate in the air, only taking defensive positions.
They actually dominate the air. The introduction of their version of a JDAM dramatically change the air war.
quote:
becoming bogged down
They’re slowly grinding their way through the Ukrainians. Arestovich said Ukraine has lost 300k dead. Which means Ukraine has suffered perhaps 900k to 1200k wounded. Kolomoisky‘s TV station published a total casualty figure of 1.1 million. The death toll, and Russias firepower is what’s allowing them to advance in places like Mariynka, and Avdiivka.
Posted on 12/17/23 at 7:10 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:
If that was true we would have defeated Russia in Ukraine.
We aren’t fighting the Russians directly in Ukraine yet. We are mostly giving the Ukrainians older equipment.
quote:
Rebuilding, for example, our shipbuilding capacity would take 15 to 20 years. This isn’t the 1940s where we could retool existing plants for wartime production, critically, we also don’t have the trained workforce for it either.
But the Navy’s goal for its shipbuilding is spread out over 35 years. The current ship building rate is 11 per year, with a goal of 360 ships by the 2060’s. Without reference to what the security situation looks like, why would we need to change our shipbuilding capacity? Retooling industrial capacity over a generation seems less concerning when the Navy has 30 year plans. Again, more does not = better.
quote:
If Ukraine is so important, if winning is so vital, and retooling our economy is so easy, then why didn’t we do that?
The US can do a lot of things at once. And pointing out the US has that ability doesn’t mean that it will happen. If the US needed to transition to a wartime economy, as the Russians have, it is well within the productive capacity of the nation.
quote:
Are we choosing to actively sabotage Ukraine then? Why do we want Ukraine to lose?
The piecemeal strategy of aid release has definitely hampered the Ukrainians.
quote:
They actually dominate the air. The introduction of their version of a JDAM dramatically change the air war.
At no point during this war has Russia ‘dominated’ the air, at least not in the way that the US has seen domination of airspace. And given they’ve lost over 30 jets that would be considered ‘modern,’ I’m not sure that it is an argument I believe. At least until we get a per sortie figure.
quote:
They’re slowly grinding their way through the Ukrainians. Arestovich said Ukraine has lost 300k dead. Which means Ukraine has suffered perhaps 900k to 1200k wounded.
I don’t trust your casualty loss figures, given your calculations early in the war.
quote:
The death toll, and Russias firepower is what’s allowing them to advance in places like Mariynka, and Avdiivka.
They’ve advanced at a snail’s pace in the last year. They have the manpower advantage and the resource advantage, and yet are still bogged down in a country which should, theoretically, be no match for them. They’ve reorganized and adapted well, but I’m skeptical of their ability against a country like Turkey, let alone the full brunt of NATO.
Posted on 12/17/23 at 7:20 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:
If that was true we would have defeated Russia in Ukraine.
We're not fighting Russia in Ukraine. If we did, it would have been with airplanes, not mortar shells.
quote:
Rebuilding, for example, our shipbuilding capacity would take 15 to 20 years.
Why would we need to do that?
quote:
This isn’t the 1940s where we could retool existing plants for wartime production, critically, we also don’t have the trained workforce for it either.
This also isn't the 1940s where international labor was difficult to obtain and transport to the US...or pay.
quote:
If Ukraine is so important, if winning is so vital, and retooling our economy is so easy, then why didn’t we do that?
We haven't spent nearly what you imagine we did in Ukraine, big picture.
The risk is Russia starting WW3. It's not military or industrial capability.
quote:
Are we choosing to actively sabotage Ukraine then?
Why do we want Ukraine to lose?
What? This is pretty low-level clever.
Posted on 12/18/23 at 7:35 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Illegal immigrants are economic migrants. Improve their economic status at home and they won't come here
The fact that you think the millions of illegals pouring over our border is organic instead of orchestrated further shows your naïveté.
Posted on 12/18/23 at 7:38 am to thebigmuffaletta
quote:
The fact that you think the millions of illegals pouring over our border is organic instead of orchestrated further shows your naïveté.
There may be orchestration in moving them, but the people are coming here for economic opportunities, as they have been for centuries.
Why has Mexican illegal immigration slowed so much in the past decade?
If your implication is true, Mexicans would still be flooding the border, too. They aren't, though. Why?
Posted on 12/18/23 at 7:39 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:this lie speaks volumes about who you are
Illegal immigrants are economic migrants. Improve their economic status at home and they won't come here
Posted on 12/18/23 at 7:43 am to JJJimmyJimJames
quote:
this lie speaks volumes about who you are
I'd love to hear you try to explain why Mexican illegal migration has decreased substantially the past 10 years or so.
Posted on 12/18/23 at 7:48 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:Sure.
I'd love to hear you try to explain why Mexican illegal migration has decreased substantially the past 10 years or so.
Right after you explain why other that Mexico illegal immigration has increased exponentially since Mayorkas, Blinken, Yellen, and the rest of the usurpers have stolen control of our government
Posted on 12/18/23 at 7:49 am to JJJimmyJimJames
quote:
Right after you explain why other that Mexico illegal immigration has increased exponentially since Mayorkas, Blinken, Yellen, and the rest of the usurpers have stolen control of our government
Theyre being organized. This isnt organic.
Posted on 12/18/23 at 8:04 am to JJJimmyJimJames
quote:
Right after you explain why other that Mexico illegal immigration has increased exponentially since Mayorkas, Blinken, Yellen, and the rest of the usurpers have stolen control of our government
Remain in Mexico was stopped.
Posted on 12/18/23 at 8:08 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
but the people are coming here for economic opportunities
I've got suspicions regarding the latest crops of "migrants." This feels more like the Mariel Boatlift than some organic movement.
Posted on 12/18/23 at 8:25 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:so, nefarious criminal behavior by the criminal usurpers Mayorkas, Blinken, Yellen et al
Right after you explain why other that Mexico illegal immigration has increased exponentially since Mayorkas, Blinken, Yellen, and the rest of the usurpers have stolen control of our government
Remain in Mexico was stopped.
and there is vastly more unexplainable "immigration" by the oddest groups, muslims asians africans..
over our southern border !!!
globalist filth "elites" gotta be held responsible..
hopefully after the same "elite" genocide perpetrators are dealt with at The Hague
This post was edited on 12/18/23 at 8:37 am
Page 8 of 8
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News