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re: Deindustrialization - Have We Become a Poor Country?

Posted on 12/9/23 at 8:56 pm to
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
261251 posts
Posted on 12/9/23 at 8:56 pm to
quote:


1) Have you ever heard of the term "Russian oligarch?"


WTF does that have to do with anything I posted?

I didnt say one word regarding Russia. I think youre confused.
Posted by jmarto1
Houma, LA/ Las Vegas, NV
Member since Mar 2008
34034 posts
Posted on 12/10/23 at 12:17 am to
quote:

The US is being forced to re-industrialize right now as supply chains have been upended by geopolitics post-COVID.


Yes, we were de-industrializing in a global economy where it was easier to remove your manufacturing from the leftwing crazies that want everyone living in the dirt and eating bugs.

There are too many important commodities and products that are important to US national security like processing chips.


Mexico is also picking up a load of manufacturing that exited southeast Asia and China.


Spot on. I can see a lot of manufacturing coming to the south was well
Posted by TigersnJeeps
FL Panhandle
Member since Jan 2021
1699 posts
Posted on 12/10/23 at 7:03 am to
US defense manufacturing is geared towards efficiency ... not actual warfighting needs.
Posted by Privateer 2007
Member since Jan 2020
6212 posts
Posted on 12/10/23 at 7:07 am to
quote:

we've struggled to produce shells.....Russia has been able to..... disconnect here


The disconnect is looking at budgets. Looking at them in terms of USD. What's the USD value of 1 American shell? Russian? If we value our shells much more, it can look as if we are producing more, yet really aren't.

It's all over with looking at GDP, instead of actual production of goods.
Best example healthcare. I get MRI here, it's say $1000. I get same MRI, same instrument, software, etc in Columbia it's $100. It's the same production of service. Yet, looks like America was 10x.

Sorry for jumbled, confusing response, dealing with screaming toddler.
Posted by Ribbed
Baton Rouge
Member since Jun 2023
2745 posts
Posted on 12/10/23 at 7:07 am to
We blow all our money on everything like a Ukrainian Warlord's girlfriend on vacation with other people's money. Kill the welfare state. Put people back to work. Stop splurging on foreign governments to make them do what we want.
Posted by texas tortilla
houston
Member since Dec 2015
1863 posts
Posted on 12/10/23 at 7:31 am to
with the value of the currency dropping, the standard of living will drop. people are now complaining of the high cost of mcdonalds. it takes more dollars to buy less.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
423213 posts
Posted on 12/10/23 at 7:41 am to
quote:

The Chinese can crank out ships. We can’t.


They can only really crank out small ones. Are you honestly scared of China's navy?

quote:

I don’t




Or, if you prefer pictures:



#2 in the world, bro, behind a country with 4x the population who completely focused their economic output on lower-level manufacturing. We produce a TON of goods.



We just don't focus on 3rd World lower-level manufacturing because we're the best economy in the world
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
423213 posts
Posted on 12/10/23 at 7:42 am to
quote:

Russia is winning its war with Ukraine because they still make things.

Neither have an air force of note.

quote:

We’re losing it, because we don’t.


We're losing it b/c we're not actually fighting.

We'd have won this conflict in a month if we were actually engaged directly by controlling the airspace.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
423213 posts
Posted on 12/10/23 at 7:43 am to
quote:

WTF does that have to do with anything I posted?


You posted

quote:

Mainly goes to wealth building of the few


Russia has this problem on steroids due to their oligarchs.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
261251 posts
Posted on 12/10/23 at 8:14 am to
quote:

Mainly goes to wealth building of the few


Russia has this problem on steroids due to their oligarchs.


I didnt say a word about Russia, Chief. Your mind is fricking with you again.
This post was edited on 12/10/23 at 8:15 am
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
261251 posts
Posted on 12/10/23 at 8:16 am to
I'll never understand the love for manufacturing jobs. Construction work is available all over the country, and it pays more than manufacturing.


Of course it requires a lot more work, which is why the entitled want high paying mfg jobs.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
423213 posts
Posted on 12/10/23 at 8:20 am to
quote:

I didnt say a word about Russia, Chief.

This is a thread about Russia v. US.

Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
261251 posts
Posted on 12/10/23 at 8:21 am to
quote:


This is a thread about Russia v. US.



I didnt say a word about Russia, chief.

Again, your mind is fricking with you. Read the thread title.
This post was edited on 12/10/23 at 8:23 am
Posted by UncleFestersLegs
Member since Nov 2010
10898 posts
Posted on 12/10/23 at 8:23 am to
quote:

These are not new plants, they're not opening new production lines. They're simply increasing production at existing facilities, using existing equipment.

We can't do that.
they don't have to pay Starbucks employees $20/hr
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
261251 posts
Posted on 12/10/23 at 8:25 am to
quote:

These are not new plants, they're not opening new production lines. They're simply increasing production at existing facilities, using existing equipment.

We can't do that.
they don't have to pay Starbucks employees $20/hr


Ive considered going to an Eastern European country for a year or so. Might when I retire.

You can live cheaply. I had J-1 workers from Bulgaria that took home more money here for summer work than their parents made in their home country in a year.
Posted by Lima Whiskey
Member since Apr 2013
19360 posts
Posted on 12/10/23 at 8:34 am to
As Plato pointed out, democracies, and even our republicans system, almost immediately decay into oligarchy.

One of Bloomberg News style guide rules is, you’re not allowed to call Michael Bloomberg an oligarch. But that’s what he, and everyone from Bezos to Zuckerberg are.

And this is why Washington doesn’t work, it’s because the whole system supports the needs and wants of the oligarchy, a small fraction of society, and whose interests aren’t necessarily in the interest of the country, often what they want is actually damaging to it, simultaneously Washington does as little as it has to, to keep the average person content enough.

For this basic reason, we actually share some of the same problems they do. Their government works better in some specific ways though, they pursue policies that reflect the national interest, more than we do, and their foreign ministry and ministry of finance are more professional than ours.
Posted by Bunk Moreland
Member since Dec 2010
53622 posts
Posted on 12/10/23 at 8:50 am to
You see these threads on the O-T where over half the country can't afford a $1,000 emergency and Americans hold a trillion in credit card debt and that doesn't seem too healthy to me.

I also saw this the other day. I don't completely understand it, but it doesn't look too good.
quote:

On September 18, 2023, the U.S. national debt crossed $33 trillion. It will reach $34 trillion in late December, a little over 90 days. It took the U.S. over 200 years to have national debt exceed $1 trillion. The national debt now exceeds gross domestic production by 122%. The U.S. government’s 2023 expenditure ratio is 23% of GDP, creating an economy dependent on money printing. The last time the government had a surplus was in 2001, and the last time it paid down treasury debt was in 1961. The runaway high deficits are due to the U.S.’s exorbitant privilege of treasuries being the primary global reserve asset.

The net present value of U.S. contingent liabilities (future obligations) is $79.5 trillion for social security, Medicare, and government pensions. When adjusting outstanding debt for contingent liabilities, treasury obligations exceed 400% of GDP. England is the only country that has successfully overcome a GDP of over 200% caused by the Napoleonic wars. England’s industrial revolution mechanized transportation, industry, and agriculture, created an unprecedented economic boom. Sorry, technophiles and speculators, Artificial Intelligence won’t repeat a similar outcome.

The bi-partisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO) projects that the deficit will increase by $25 trillion over the next ten fiscal years. Total debt would be a whopping $59 trillion. This estimate assumes there is no recession or a depression. Tax rate increases to solve deficits won’t work since they strain businesses and taxpayers, who are already overleveraged and facing high interest rates and sticky inflation costs. Increases would trigger a deep recession, causing tax revenues to plummet, compounding the deficits.

Over the past two decades, U.S. debt growth is no longer linear; it has taken on exponential growth, creating a destructive data pattern shaped like a hockey stick. Dr. Chris Martenson, founder of Peak Posterity, demonstrates the impact of exponential growth in the following four-minute video to understand the phenomenon best.

Interest expense is anticipated to exceed $1 trillion in the 2024 fiscal budget, adding to the mountain of $7.6 trillion in treasuries maturing at much higher rates within a year. Deficit funding could soar over $3 trillion in 2024.

LINK /
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
261251 posts
Posted on 12/10/23 at 9:52 am to
quote:

As Plato pointed out, democracies, and even our republicans system, almost immediately decay into oligarchy.


Or ideocracy.



Posted by 756
Member since Sep 2004
14876 posts
Posted on 12/10/23 at 9:57 am to
Ross perot warned us,
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
423213 posts
Posted on 12/10/23 at 10:05 am to
quote:

You see these threads on the O-T where over half the country can't afford a $1,000 emergency and Americans hold a trillion in credit card debt and that doesn't seem too healthy to me.


It's not perfect but that's the point of free systems is that there are inflationary periods and deflationary periods. We have been in need of a deflationary cycle since 2009 so ultimately the market will come through with one.
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