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Started By
Message
re: Correct grammar be like racist
Posted on 7/26/20 at 1:30 pm to Toomer Deplorable
Posted on 7/26/20 at 1:30 pm to Toomer Deplorable
quote:
This passage clearly states that the Rutgers English Department will now emphasize “critical awareness” on how students can push back against bias towards “written accents” — i.e. bias against non-grammatically correct English. The passage says the EXACT opposite of what you are claiming.
She's saying that a composition written in non-standard English will be subject to the biases of the reader.
Thus her students need to have an awareness that two equivalent sentences one with proper grammar, one without will yield different responses. For this reason, she rejects the en vogue dogma that writing instruction should limit emphasis on grammar/sentence-level issues.
Let's try this another way. Can you describe the "familiar dogma" in this sentence that she is challenging?
quote:
his approach challenges the familiar dogma that writing instruction should limit emphasis on grammar/sentence-level issues so as to not put students from multilingual, non-standard "academic" English backgrounds at a disadvantage.
2
Posted on 7/26/20 at 1:32 pm to longwayfromLA
quote:
For this reason, she rejects the en vogue dogma that writing instruction should limit emphasis on grammar/sentence-level issues.
You’re so far behind the curve that you have almost caught up. The community decides grammar in critical grammar. Not some archaic rules made up by the privileged.
Posted on 7/26/20 at 1:33 pm to longwayfromLA
quote:
You're not only making up things that she never said. You are flat out denying the plain meaning of the words she's written.
Again, a “bias against written accents” is gobbledygook for a bias against objective grammatical standards. You can lock down on this all you want but the objective here is the exact opposite of what you claim.
This post was edited on 7/26/20 at 2:20 pm
Posted on 7/26/20 at 1:33 pm to JakeRStephenes
quote:
graduate level course not requiring correct grammar? Wouldn't that be similar to a Calculus course not requiring basic algebra?
I think this is artificial bullshite pushed by trash progs. But I will say the rules of language are not scientific or mathematical. Many of the rules of English are arbitrary and some are vestiges of Latin rules.
Posted on 7/26/20 at 1:34 pm to the808bass
quote:
I don’t know why you’ve waded into a subject that you don’t understand. Critical grammar isn’t classical grammar. Any time you see “critical” in a university setting (almost), understand that it comes from critical theory. And that whatever normal people might think it means, it doesn’t mean that at all.
The Chair of English Department at Rutgers has already weighed in and said.
quote:
LINK ]
[quote]"the effort will result in “more attention to grammar in the aggregate, not less. Our standards remain rigorous and high, and our goal is to help students succeed in academic writing and other writing genres.”
So in addition to her words being clear the first, she has again re-emphasized that she is not removing grammatical standards but rather raising them.
Let's try this another way. Can you describe the "familiar dogma" in this sentence that she is challenging?
quote:
This approach challenges the familiar dogma that writing instruction should limit emphasis on grammar/sentence-level issues so as to not put students from multilingual, non-standard "academic" English backgrounds at a disadvantage.
Posted on 7/26/20 at 1:36 pm to longwayfromLA
So she is the racist. I guess that explains why she didn’t respond. She is probably concerned about being canceled.
ETA - thanks for the clarification and I stand corrected
quote:
When asked whether the effort to “decolonize the writing center” and incorporate “critical grammar” is a wise pedagogical decision for Rutgers’ student body and university as a whole, Executive Dean Peter March and Rutgers media spokesperson Dory Devlin did not respond to a request from The College Fix for comment on the matter.
ETA - thanks for the clarification and I stand corrected
This post was edited on 7/26/20 at 1:38 pm
Posted on 7/26/20 at 1:38 pm to longwayfromLA
Yes. And you’ve already adequately noted that in this thread. What you don’t understand is that they’re not emphasizing classical grammar rules in the response to the “familiar dogma.” Critical grammar has a specific meaning in academic circles. Until you understand what it means, you’re swinging in the dark.
Posted on 7/26/20 at 1:38 pm to longwayfromLA
by the way. Can we stop for a moment to discuss just how incredibly radically left the rest of that letter is that you linked? It's a freaking English Department
And the entire letter is just one long screed regarding indoctrination
And the entire letter is just one long screed regarding indoctrination
Posted on 7/26/20 at 1:38 pm to the808bass
quote:
You’re so far behind the curve that you have almost caught up. The community decides grammar in critical grammar. Not some archaic rules made up by the privileged.
This is in no way true for academic writing which is why she's emphasizing knowledge of the standard grammar and syntax and its use as appropriate....unlike other programs which have de-emphasized the same at least in their composition courses.
Posted on 7/26/20 at 1:39 pm to longwayfromLA
quote:
This is in no way true for academic writing which is why she's emphasizing knowledge of the standard grammar and syntax and its use as appropriate....unlike other programs which have de-emphasized the same at least in their composition courses.
You added the words “standard.” She doesn’t say that and wouldn’t say that. That’s the point of critical grammar.
Posted on 7/26/20 at 1:41 pm to the808bass
quote:
Yes. And you’ve already adequately noted that in this thread. What you don’t understand is that they’re not emphasizing classical grammar rules in the response to the “familiar dogma.” Critical grammar has a specific meaning in academic circles. Until you understand what it means, you’re swinging in the dark.
Right, right, right. So let's just go head an describe the familiar dogma.
Posted on 7/26/20 at 1:42 pm to longwayfromLA
The familiar dogma is that we ignore grammar to let non-standardized voices be represented.
The new dogma is that their grammar is correct as it is and doesn’t need to be changed.
You think an English department is moving towards classical learning in the middle of that screed of liberalism?
The new dogma is that their grammar is correct as it is and doesn’t need to be changed.
You think an English department is moving towards classical learning in the middle of that screed of liberalism?
Posted on 7/26/20 at 1:43 pm to the808bass
quote:
You added the words “standard.” She doesn’t say that and wouldn’t say that. That’s the point of critical grammar
I'd argue the point is that you'd have to know standard grammar even as you would not necessarily accept is as the "correct" grammar. The point is knowing when to use what. At base this is all about code switching and to do that properly you need to know standard rules.
Posted on 7/26/20 at 1:43 pm to the808bass
quote:
The community decides grammar in critical grammar. Not some archaic rules made up by the privileged.
In other words, wholly subjective community standards will be emphasized instead of universal objective standards. This entire Rutgers treatise is a vilipended rejection of common grammatical standards. Any effort to say otherwise is pure spin.
This post was edited on 7/26/20 at 2:04 pm
Posted on 7/26/20 at 1:43 pm to Zach
Rutgahs dawg
Posted on 7/26/20 at 1:44 pm to Toomer Deplorable
quote:
In other words, wholly subjective community standards will be emphasized instead of universal objective standards. This entire Rutgers treatise is a vilipended rejection of common grammatical standards. It any effort to say otherwise is pure spin.
Correct. Those are the “micro-decisions” talked about in the piece.
Posted on 7/26/20 at 1:45 pm to longwayfromLA
quote:I'm sorry. There is just no way to read that entire screed of radical leftism and conclude that the paragraph you are focused on means what you say it means. Admittedly she is fairly clever about how she words it. But it is clear that the focus is on "pushing back on bias against written accents"
This is in no way true for academic writing which is why she's emphasizing knowledge of the standard grammar and syntax and its use as appropriate....unlike other programs which have de-emphasized the same at least in their composition courses
They aren't planning to teach the students to stop doing it. It looks a whole lot more like they just want to make sure every student is "aware" of the supposed "correct" vs "written accents"
Basically that means Force white kids to stop having a bias against poor writing.
You might be able to interpret that paragraph the way you are if it didn't fall in the rest of that radical leftist diatribe. Within the diatribe there is simply no way to conclude your interpretation is correct
Posted on 7/26/20 at 1:45 pm to Zach
quote:interesting
The initiatives were spelled out by Rebecca Walkowitz
Posted on 7/26/20 at 1:46 pm to the808bass
[quote]The new dogma is that their grammar is correct as it is and doesn’t need to be changed.
You think an English department is moving towards classical learning in the middle of that screed of liberalism?[/quot
I think she's essentially saying that a written accent is fine to have but is limiting in some circumstance and thus her students need to know how and when to code switch. And in order to code switch, you need to know the standard.
You think an English department is moving towards classical learning in the middle of that screed of liberalism?[/quot
I think she's essentially saying that a written accent is fine to have but is limiting in some circumstance and thus her students need to know how and when to code switch. And in order to code switch, you need to know the standard.
Posted on 7/26/20 at 1:47 pm to longwayfromLA
quote:
I'd argue the point is that you'd have to know standard grammar even as you would not necessarily accept is as the "correct" grammar.
You’re a normal-thinking person. That’s why your approach is fundamentally incorrect in ascertaining what they mean.
They view “standard grammar” as another power structure constructed by the privileged. And that standard grammar keeps people without power from having their voices represented and heard. Their response isn’t to ignore grammar that isn’t privileged. It’s to affirm it and say “we are focusing on grammar now more than ever.” But it’s not a constructionist focus. It’s a deconstructionist focus.
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