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re: Christians Praying over Trump in Oval office
Posted on 7/12/17 at 2:28 pm to Brazos
Posted on 7/12/17 at 2:28 pm to Brazos
quote:there is zero evidence of any kind
There is a lot more evidence that points to God existing than there being no God.
quote:if this was true than life on earth would have been perfect on day one. instead its evolved and changed over millions of years. no perfect creator would create something that needed so many repairs.
The fine tuning of life on Earth is one example.
0
Posted on 7/12/17 at 2:29 pm to Walkthedawg
quote:
Looks like your the one that sounds silly
And how's that?
Posted on 7/12/17 at 2:37 pm to Argonaut
quote:
I have no use for Apple products. I see the value in them, but I think we'd all be just fine or maybe better off without Apple's products. I don't necessarily think we should eradicate them, but we could certainly do so.
It isn't a perfect analogy and not something I'd read too deeply into, but I think it gets my point across.
Good analogy actually. Summary: I do not use religion. The world can function without it. I don't advocate its irradiation. Up to here I'm in agreement. But the world might be better off without it. Not going there! Your very personal story is self evident that religion has improved your life. You may love your PC, but if your kid gets an A on a term paper using a Mac, then Apple improved your life.
I'm sure we are now at the point where the only further agreement will be to agree to disagree!
Proof of God.
Philosophical assumption (without this I can just assume you don't exist and therefore don't matter).
Perceived reality is real.
Therefore creation is real.
Scientific: Creation occurred in a one time only event called the Big Bang. One time only events are best classified as miracles and cannot be scientifically explained. The Big Bang directly contradicts the scientific principle that matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed. Very simplistic but accurate.
So since creation exist a creator exists. Something that powerful and intelligent must be recognized as a god as the word is defined.
I have proven a creator God in a logical manner!
From here all I've got is faith, historical references, and personal experiences that I choose to view as revaluations.
Edit: Hate to hit and split but reality calls.
This post was edited on 7/12/17 at 2:40 pm
Posted on 7/12/17 at 2:39 pm to Argonaut
quote:
I can't say I really give many fricks about this, but even the most devout of you has to admit this is a bit creepy.
The further removed you get from religion, the more creepy these things become to you. I'm right there with you - this looks weird.
Posted on 7/12/17 at 2:43 pm to rbWarEagle
quote:
The further removed you get from religion, the more creepy these things become to you. I'm right there with you - this looks weird.
I've been here quite a while.
Once you really take a step back and acknowledge that there are thousands of other religions full of people who take their faith as seriously, or more than you do...you realize it is all completely made up bullshite.
Once baby boomers die off, the majority of religion in the western world will die off with it. To many people still believe verbatim what they were told as children. It is very hard to break that.
I don't deny the possibility of higher intelligent being(s), but the truth is we don't know anything.
Posted on 7/12/17 at 2:44 pm to JCdawg
quote:
but the truth is we don't know anything.
That's really the main issue with religion for me, too. I don't trust anyone who claims to know the unknowable.
Posted on 7/12/17 at 3:09 pm to MButterfly
I pray for our leaders on a daily basis.
Posted on 7/12/17 at 3:14 pm to JCdawg
quote:
I don't deny the possibility of higher intelligent being(s), but the truth is we don't know anything.
Why walk the fence? You claimed it's all made up bs. Go ahead and jump to that side.
quote:
To many people still believe verbatim what they were told as children.
What do you say to those who have experienced God's power and believe?
Posted on 7/12/17 at 3:25 pm to rbWarEagle
quote:
That's really the main issue with religion for me, too. I don't trust anyone who claims to know the unknowable.
It's called Faith
Posted on 7/12/17 at 3:27 pm to Walkthedawg
Faith is believing something without evidence. I don't find that to be a great quality.
Posted on 7/12/17 at 3:43 pm to Gaspergou202
quote:
Second, the President's personal faith does not require equal time. What moron taught you that concept?
If other religions wanted to bitch in court, they would win time in the oval office to offer up prayers to whatever stupid shite ignorant religious people pray to.
Posted on 7/12/17 at 3:48 pm to rbWarEagle
quote:
That's really the main issue with religion for me, too. I don't trust anyone who claims to know the unknowable.
That's the very definition of faith.
We don't know.
Posted on 7/12/17 at 3:49 pm to Salmon
quote:
Posted on 7/12/17 at 4:02 pm to Chad504boy
quote:
NO WHITE PEOPLE!!!
Exactly! Trump's prayer circle has some diversity. Obama? Not so much.
Posted on 7/12/17 at 4:06 pm to MButterfly
What a fricking circus clown.
Posted on 7/12/17 at 4:10 pm to Gaspergou202
quote:
Good analogy actually. Summary: I do not use religion. The world can function without it. I don't advocate its irradiation. Up to here I'm in agreement. But the world might be better off without it. Not going there! Your very personal story is self evident that religion has improved your life. You may love your PC, but if your kid gets an A on a term paper using a Mac, then Apple improved your life.
Sure, but religion isn't unique in that. My singular example is something good, but religion isn't necessarily the driver in my opinion. There are others with similar stories who replace drugs with fitness, video games, or food. At a basic level, I think the commonality is how our brain reacts to each.
This is why I say religion isn't necessary. I also think that on a large scale, religion does more harm than good. That's why I said we might be better off without it.
People are people, and I do think we'd ultimately be better off without religion. The contrast between Christianity and Islam is a decent (not perfect) example of two completely different religions with different outcomes. Without Islam, I think most would agree Muslims would behave much differently. Take Christianity away, and would you all start murdering each other in the streets? I say no.
Now, all that said, I do understand the value of religion with regard to our early history. I don't know that we'd be where we are as a society without religion. None of us knows that, but I often hear the point that we'd be worse off. Well, maybe we'd be better off, right? It was certainly useful when we didn't understand our world, but I think its usefulness decreases as our understanding of our world increases.
A final point, I'm also able to separate religion from deism.
A bit of a brain dump, but hopefully that gets some of my thoughts on it out there.
Posted on 7/12/17 at 4:14 pm to Argonaut
quote:It doesn't have to, but then again if it's not, you have no basis for judging anyone else as right or wrong or their actions as good or bad. They are just different from you and their moral code is just different from yours.
I don't think a basis for morality needs to be something concrete.
quote:Agreed.
Not understanding something completely isn't the same as something not existing.
quote:Outcomes can be manipulated regardless of view but that's not what I'm getting at.
Religion certainly isn't a concrete basis for morality, and the outcomes are easily manipulated in either view
Christianity, for instance, adheres to a belief that the only true moral standard originates from an eternal and holy God which transcends His creation. With that belief, the moral standard that He imparts on humanity would be an objective standard since God would dictate ultimate right and wrong and humans would be held accountable to that standard. The Christian faith is either correct or it isn't, but if it is, then the Christian's moral standard would be objective due to its origin, and because the origin of that standard doesn't change (and doesn't change the standard), the standard, itself, doesn't change.
The atheist has no claim at all to objective morality because in that worldview, all moral standards originate in the minds of men. If men were wiped out, there would be no moral code because the source of morality was gone. Because of that, each person may create their own moral code to live by and it isn't any better or worse (objectively speaking) than any other. Because of this, the moral standards of humans who don't appeal to an objective standard will constantly be changing and evolving over time, and not necessarily for the "better".
Posted on 7/12/17 at 4:19 pm to rbWarEagle
quote:Not true at all. I think you're alluding to blind faith, but Christianity isn't a blind faith. There are evidences, just not ones you accept.
Faith is believing something without evidence. I don't find that to be a great quality
Posted on 7/12/17 at 4:20 pm to MButterfly
As a Christian of course I encourage this.
Making a big deal of it, from either side for political gain, is more disturbing.
Making a big deal of it, from either side for political gain, is more disturbing.
Posted on 7/12/17 at 4:23 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Not true at all. I think you're alluding to blind faith, but Christianity isn't a blind faith. There are evidences, just not ones you accept.
What are the evidences?
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