re: Catholic California univ to host Pelosi as commencement speaker despite abortion stance

quote:

---

If it's really a "Catholic Institution" it most certainly is.

---

Dude, you can call yourself a Catholic institution. That doesn't mean you've been sanctioned by the Diocese.

I believe the university considers itself a Catholic institution based on its founding by nuns. There is no "certification" or "sanctioning" by the Vatican or diocese for schools like this, which is different from, for example, a parish grade school - in that case, the parish or diocese has absolute control.

quote:

---

Yep. Francis was a shitty pope and Leo hasn't started any better.

Francis argued he would not "politicize" the sacraments, and that anybody could walk up and take communion, but only those in good standing as a Catholic were truly receiving the body and blood. Weak sauce when you're not talking about some rando nobody knows but that's different from the pope's position that you/I were debating yesterday.

---

The apostle Paul taught that those who did not receive the Eucharist in a worthy manner would eat and drink judgement upon themselves (1 Cor. 11:29-30).

If an Archbishop denies a person the Eucharist, why should the Pope allow it? Doesn't that not only potentially do harm to the one receiving it unworthily, but also provide disunity in the RCC?

quote:

---

Dude, you can call yourself a Catholic institution. That doesn't mean you've been sanctioned by the Diocese.

---

Nope. You don't understand what you are talking about. If you are a "Catholic Institution" physically operating in a Bishop's diocese, you are subject to his ultimate authority. Go ask anyone running one anywhere.

Are you a Catholic?

quote:

---

Nope. You don't understand what you are talking about. If you are a "Catholic Institution" physically operating in a Bishop's diocese, you are subject to his ultimate authority. Go ask anyone running one anywhere.

---

Do you think the Bishop could shut that university down if he instructed it to dis-invite Pelosi, and it didn't?

He couldn't.

quote:

---

Why don't you post what percentage of Catholics think abortion is a mortal sin?

---

It's not necessary for the point I'm arguing. 2/3rds or more of Catholics apparently disagree with the Church's official teaching on these matters.

However, since you asked, I couldn't find any data on whether or not lay Catholics believe abortion is a mortal sin, but I did find a survey from 2022 that says that a nearly half of Catholics believe abortion is NOT morally wrong (which I think touches on the moral sin issue).

Similarly, 56% of Protestants and 54% of Catholics say abortion is morally wrong, somewhat above the overall sample average of 48%.

LINK

quote:

---

By making this about legal/not legal, you're roping in a shite ton of Catholics who believe abortion is murder, but think it's wrong to impose Catholic doctrine on the public.

---

That may be true, but as stated above, nearly half of Catholics seem to consider abortion morally good or neutral, but not immoral.

quote:

---

I think Francis should have shunned Pelosi but like most weak leaders, he sloughed the discipline off on underlings.

Francis supported the principles cited by the arch-bishop in that letter. He just wanted to pretend to be above it all.

---

Thank you for your honesty on this matter. I hope you consider this in the future when discussing Protestants being fractured while Catholicism being united

quote:

---

Of course he could, or say they are no longer operating as a "Catholic Institution."

This is just basic hierarchal stuff man.

---

What it is is fantasy.

The Diocese could not shut the school down.

Like I said above, it could write that strongly worded letter say that while they call themselves Catholic, they're really not Catholic. That's about it.

quote:

---

Thank you for your honesty on this matter. I hope you consider this in the future when discussing Protestants being fractured while Catholicism being united

---

I haven't posted about Protestants outside of asking if there were official churches that support abortion rights. I'm pretty good at not posting about things I'm unfamiliar with, and I'm not familiar with religions outside of Catholicism. In fact, I wasn't even aware of the "friction" between Catholics and Protestants (outside of Northern Ireland) until I read about it in these threads.

quote:

---

The same relationships pertain to other measures of abortion attitudes. For example, the percentage of all Americans who think abortion is morally wrong ranges from 75% among weekly religious service attenders to less than half of that among those who seldom or never attend. And the percentage of weekly church attenders who say abortion should be illegal in all or most circumstances ranges from 78% among weekly church attenders and 64% among those who go almost every week, down to 36% among those who never attend.

If you're not attending Mass every Sunday, you're not a practicing Catholic.

---

I agree with you that you aren't a practicing Catholic if you aren't regularly attending Mass, but I don't think that helps the case of the claim of unity. They are still nominal Catholics and are part of the one apostolic church according to Rome, so whether they are faithful Catholics or not, they are still included in this claim to unity. When I have numbers quoted to me by Champagne or other Catholics on this forum, they don't seem to differentiate between the nominal Catholics and the faithful.

quote:

---

And I'm still skeptical of the numbers. All sorts of ways to conduct a poll.

---

I usually am, as well, but the alternative to using potentially flawed polls is flawed anecdotal evidence and assumptions. I do know anecdotally that there are at least some Catholics that disagree with the official teachings. Most of the Catholics in the Democrat party are this way.