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re: Can anyone defend being a libertarian anymore?
Posted on 2/13/25 at 11:15 am to OBReb6
Posted on 2/13/25 at 11:15 am to OBReb6
quote:
In principle you have to be against all of these US gov actions abroad, but if we eliminate these things and pivoted to more of a true free market we would quickly be devoured by our enemies.
I don't accept this false binary.
1
Posted on 2/13/25 at 11:19 am to OBReb6
I say this as someone who has a strong libertarian streak - it's a utopian ideal that is not compatible with the current state of our civilization. I wish things could work that way.
Posted on 2/13/25 at 11:22 am to Robin Masters
quote:
I’m not saying libertarianism is the solution to all our problems but it just seems like odd timing for your post considering what Dems and Republicans have been up to the last 20 years.
Because the only way to make libertarian ideal work is to have a closed off vacuum where economics is not drastically influenced by foreign actors, and libertarians aren’t willing to do that because they are for “free trade”.
You seem to be confused why I would time this criticism now, so let me explain. I would make most of these same arguments last year as well, but when arguing with libertarians it always come down to free trade, and I’m saying all of this recent news regarding our foreign influence paints a more clear picture that no one even knows what free trade means.
quote:
To your point about Covid, if the country had more libertarian thinkers in government it likely never would have happened.
Maybe, but how do you get libertarians into control of the government? Well the idea is you persuade voters to vote them in.
Well the problem with this is mass democracy doesn’t work like that. The vast majority of people are not intelligent enough to know what libertarian principles mean, and even when it’s broken down for them as simply as possible they are still persuaded by more Machiavellian counter forces that promise freebies. You are always going to have malignant actors taking advantage of factions in a mass democracy, and the more we are willing to diversify our population the more this can be exploited.
The only way to counter power and deceit is with more power, and some of your own deceit. Pie in the sky live and let live won’t work on a mass scale. It just won’t.
This post was edited on 2/13/25 at 11:47 am
Posted on 2/13/25 at 11:26 am to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
I don't accept this false binary.
Help me understand how you would work this out otherwise
Posted on 2/13/25 at 11:28 am to Nevada_Tiger
Libertarian policies get you homeless people and drug addicts strewn all over streets. Not much different than Democrats being in charge in that respect.
Posted on 2/13/25 at 11:31 am to OBReb6
quote:
Help me understand how you would work this out otherwise
We are seeing billions of dollars spent around the world with no tangible benefit to the United States.
In many, or even most, cases, no one will fill the void because there is no void to fill.
You think China is going to jump and fund the Drag Queen story hour in Venezuala?
Posted on 2/13/25 at 11:31 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
The govt fricked that up because people like you crave security over liberty.
Liberty to do what? The only unifying force libertarians have is freedom to be a degenerate without judgement or consequences. Every other “freedom” you enjoy is propped up by something else.
quote:
We dont have free markets, the world would be 100x better if we did and you statists would find your own king to rule you.
Ok. How are you gonna get free markets? Ironically it would require something approaching totalitarianism, or an elimination of 95% of people on earth
This post was edited on 2/13/25 at 11:37 am
Posted on 2/13/25 at 11:32 am to OBReb6
Shout to my boy Gmorgan. I wonder where he’s at in the world.
Posted on 2/13/25 at 11:34 am to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
We are seeing billions of dollars spent around the world with no tangible benefit to the United States.
I agree with the principle of this, but the truth is we don’t really know that. These outrageous DEI stories are only part of the story, and even those are just fronts to prop up some friendly actor, or subvert a hostile actor, with the goal of getting more access to something we want.
quote:
You think China is going to jump and fund the Drag Queen story hour in Venezuala?
There was already a story a day or two ago of China attempting to do just that, to fill vacancies left by some USAID vacuums
Posted on 2/13/25 at 11:34 am to OBReb6
quote:
Liberty to do what? The only unifying force libertarians have if freedom to be a degenerate without judgement
The political musings of a child.
Posted on 2/13/25 at 11:36 am to OBReb6
It sounds like you are making an argument for libertarianism
This post was edited on 2/13/25 at 11:38 am
Posted on 2/13/25 at 11:36 am to RogerTheShrubber
Give me some adult arguments then. Persuade me. Your entire world view literally depends on it
Posted on 2/13/25 at 11:37 am to OBReb6
Please dont show your lack of intelligence. Both big parties have robbed us blind for the past several decades. Thankfully given Elon's recent revelations, the theft and corruption is now VERY clear.
Do I wholly embrace Libertarian thought? No! But the vast majority of the problems in this country were caused by the R's & D's. It is time you realize the RNC and DNC are PRIVATE CLUBS. They do NOT give a flip about you or your family. If you fit under their tent fine. Otherwise, they provide no consideration to the American populace in general.
Do I wholly embrace Libertarian thought? No! But the vast majority of the problems in this country were caused by the R's & D's. It is time you realize the RNC and DNC are PRIVATE CLUBS. They do NOT give a flip about you or your family. If you fit under their tent fine. Otherwise, they provide no consideration to the American populace in general.
This post was edited on 2/13/25 at 11:39 am
Posted on 2/13/25 at 11:39 am to OBReb6
Posted on 2/13/25 at 11:41 am to OBReb6
I've read probably 25% of the Libertarian canon at this point. Being a Libertarian is in most cases just a guy who loves philosophy, human nature and economics. It doesn't have much relevance other than as a philosophical/intellectual pursuit. I have a brilliant friend for instance who is an anarcho capitalist and while his ideas are excellent and seductive, it's kind of like reading Emerson to cannibals. It is utopian to imagine a world where people would ever peaceably behave in their best interest without being overwhelmed by hordes of Statists, angry pitchfork carrying peasants and tanks. The human condition is too vile for something so noble and idealistic to ever succeed outside the realm of the personal.
Posted on 2/13/25 at 11:49 am to OBReb6
quote:
Non aggression principle is meaningless if you don’t have everyone you are in contact with agreeing with the same principle. If you use force only as a defense mechanism you are always reacting and never proactive, and thus always on your heels.
Unless you're the biggest, baddest m'fer on the block who is known to completely f up anyone who messed with them. The NAP kind of enforces itself at that point.
Posted on 2/13/25 at 11:51 am to Bayou Warrior 64
quote:
Both big parties have robbed us blind for the past several decades. Thankfully given Elon's recent revelations, the theft and corruption is now VERY clear.
Elon was happy to go along with it until it started to threaten his own bottom line. And Elon isn’t really a libertarian. He is perfectly fine with manipulating things when needed. This is overwhelmingly positive for us because he is mostly on the same page with us, but he is imposing his way through force and powerful assets.
quote:
Do I wholly embrace Libertarian thought? No! But the vast majority of the problems in this country were caused by the R's & D's. It is time you realize the RNC and DNC are PRIVATE CLUBS. They do NOT give a flip about you or your family. If you fit under their tent fine. Otherwise, they provide no consideration to the American populace in general.
I’m not arguing on behalf of the republicans or democrats. I despise them both, and almost the entirety of Washington should be in prison. My overall point is libertarians aren’t going to be the ones to impose this reset, they are too busy arguing and developing theory between bong hits
This post was edited on 2/13/25 at 12:25 pm
Posted on 2/13/25 at 11:53 am to OBReb6
quote:
Give me some adult arguments then
Libertarianism isnt a ruling philosophy,its a contributing philosophy that favors freedom over statism.
Its 100% necessary to keep you people from destroying all freedom to build some statist utopia with govt controlling the economy.
The fact that it bothers you folks pretty much prove progressivism is your future.
Posted on 2/13/25 at 11:54 am to OBReb6
quote:
Economic freedom demands the unrestricted movement of human as well as financial capital across national borders.
From their Party webpage. Am I correct in assuming this means completely open borders?
Posted on 2/13/25 at 11:55 am to prouddawg
That’s exactly what it means
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