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re: By insulting American culture is Vivek’s political career over?

Posted on 12/28/24 at 9:44 am to
Posted by GumboPot
Member since Mar 2009
138911 posts
Posted on 12/28/24 at 9:44 am to
quote:

He's saying hard truths that are supported by decades of data.


What data?

The only place IRL I see terrible culture is online. I my little work environment world I don’t see this toxic culture at all. In fact I see exactly the opposite.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
467749 posts
Posted on 12/28/24 at 9:46 am to
quote:

Shouldn't this imply that we should "grow up" and be better? (Admittedly this is a pie in the sky viewpoint)


What do you mean?

This is about personal political goals and party policy. The traditional GOP folds perfectly into "management", by and large. The traditional DEM folds perfectly into "labor", by and large.

MAGA trying to merge management and labor and that creating fiction, isn't about "Growing up". It's just a natural conflict manifesting itself.
Posted by tide06
Member since Oct 2011
20792 posts
Posted on 12/28/24 at 9:46 am to
quote:

Aint nobody going to remember this two months from now.

Yeah those tweets are going to be tossed in his face anytime he has to win a primary in the GOP along with his time at the Soros Institute.

Is he dead? No.

Is that two strikes against someone with zero political track record to balance it against? Yes.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
467749 posts
Posted on 12/28/24 at 9:47 am to
quote:

What data?


The traditional ones.

Where do we rank in educational rankings? Healthcare rankings? Violent crime rankings? Etc.
Posted by udtiger
Over your left shoulder
Member since Nov 2006
112879 posts
Posted on 12/28/24 at 9:49 am to
quote:

What data?


Academic achievement
Median family income

1st Gen Asian/Indian beats native born American
Posted by boomtown143
Member since May 2019
9407 posts
Posted on 12/28/24 at 9:50 am to
Only the best and brightest H1Bs!

This post was edited on 12/28/24 at 9:51 am
Posted by GumboPot
Member since Mar 2009
138911 posts
Posted on 12/28/24 at 9:50 am to
quote:

Because MAGA pretends it can blend the 2 populations


The coalition was brought together for a singular purpose: win the election. Now that goal has been achieved the Big Tech side now wants Trump to deliver on more H1Bs that the MAGA base never wanted.

I do appreciate Vivek and Elon bringing this fight to a head. It’s kind of needed and actually healthy.
Posted by 50_Tiger
Arlington TX
Member since Jan 2016
43083 posts
Posted on 12/28/24 at 9:52 am to
quote:

What do you mean?

This is about personal political goals and party policy. The traditional GOP folds perfectly into "management", by and large. The traditional DEM folds perfectly into "labor", by and large.

MAGA trying to merge management and labor and that creating fiction, isn't about "Growing up". It's just a natural conflict manifesting itself.


I mean that perhaps a new party that combines the best of both worlds that benefit both (to a degree) should emerge.

If American Labor wants: Jobs, Better Education, etc

and

Companies want: Talented Labor at a market favorable salary range

There has to be some sort of compromise that allows both to happen via legislation, thought-process, internal movements.

Instead, what we have is a constant eternal tug of war of who can extract more from who (which is easier for sure), but the harder thing would be effectively to have a collective bargaining (at a much larger scale) that helps both parties.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
467749 posts
Posted on 12/28/24 at 9:53 am to
quote:

The coalition was brought together for a singular purpose: win the election.

This is the SDV theory of MAGA

It's not very popular on here right now.

quote:

Now that goal has been achieved the Big Tech side now wants Trump to deliver on more H1Bs that the MAGA base never wanted.

If "the MAGA base" had a policy preference, then the coalition had more than just SDV theory of winning the election being the "policy" goal.

quote:

I do appreciate Vivek and Elon bringing this fight to a head. It’s kind of needed and actually healthy.

The only 2 things this has done are: (1) identifying different MAGA factions and their personal desires (2) showing MAGA is a movement without policies or principles (leading to 1 being possible)
Posted by jrobic4
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2011
12285 posts
Posted on 12/28/24 at 9:54 am to
quote:

said some anti MAGA stuff before


One does not have to agree with Trump 100% of the time to want to MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN.

What differentiates us from the Liberal NPCs is the ability to disagree on particular issues, but keep our eyes on the same prize. Don't let MAGA become a monolith!
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
298305 posts
Posted on 12/28/24 at 9:55 am to
quote:


Yeah those tweets are going to be tossed in his face anytime he has to win a primary in the GOP along with his time at the Soros Institute.


He is absolutely right.

In fact, most of this board once agreed with him.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
467749 posts
Posted on 12/28/24 at 9:56 am to
quote:

I mean that perhaps a new party that combines the best of both worlds that benefit both (to a degree) should emerge.


It cannot without major friction.

The only way it can, is the way MAGA did, where no policies or principles were involved. Once they win, and the various factions describe how they see "MAGA", you get this conflict. 2 major schisms in 2 weeks, with many more to come.

You had dumbass MAGA NPCs on here calling Chip Roy and Thomas Massie "RINOs" for showing principles in decreasing federal spending

quote:

Instead, what we have is a constant eternal tug of war of who can extract more from who (which is easier for sure), but the harder thing would be effectively to have a collective bargaining (at a much larger scale) that helps both parties.

This is the Democrat theory of management-labor, FWIW. Straight out of the Bernie playbook.

LINK

quote:

It was the trade union movement that built the middle class in this country, and it is the trade union movement that is going to rebuild the middle class in America once again.

In order to strengthen America’s middle class, a Bernie Sanders administration will make it a priority to restore workers’ rights to bargain for better wages, benefits, and working conditions. That is what the Workplace Democracy plan is all about.

There is no doubt that union membership is good for workers: union workers earn 22 percent more, on average, than non-union workers. In America today, 72 percent of union workers have a defined benefit pension plan that guarantees an income in retirement compared to just 14 percent of non-union workers. Union workers are also half as likely to be victims of health and safety violations or of wage theft and 18 percent more likely to have health coverage.

Declining unionization has fueled rising inequality. Today, corporate profits are at an all-time high, while wages as a percentage of the economy are near an all-time low. The middle class is disappearing, and the gap between the very rich and everyone else is growing wider and wider.

There are many reasons for the growing inequality in our economy, but one of the most significant reasons for the disappearing middle class is that the rights of workers to join together and bargain for better wages, benefits, and working conditions have been severely undermined.

Posted by Taxing Authority
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
62653 posts
Posted on 12/28/24 at 9:57 am to

I am *shocked* that a guy that wore this turned out to be fake



(shamelessly stolen from a twitter post that I cannot find now)
Posted by 50_Tiger
Arlington TX
Member since Jan 2016
43083 posts
Posted on 12/28/24 at 9:58 am to
Well shite you got me, today I learned I have some things in common with Bernie Bros
Posted by tide06
Member since Oct 2011
20792 posts
Posted on 12/28/24 at 10:03 am to
quote:

He is absolutely right.

So why specifically do you support doubling of H1B visas?

The US lost more tech jobs in 2023 than in any year in US history.

At one point we were hemorrhaging 25k jobs per week. And those aren’t cheap jobs they’re six figure jobs.

There isn’t a surplus of tech jobs, there’s a massive deficit and per published reports they aren’t being made available to US workers, they’re being filled by Indian headhunting firms overseas.

So at a time when the US has lost an entire work sector why do you and Vivek want to double H1B visas to continue to replace US workers with foreign workers?

How does it benefit America to let US tax payers with six figure jobs get wiped out so that Intel can lower their labor costs by 10%?
NPR - 2023 worst year for tech layoffs ever 25k per week
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
467749 posts
Posted on 12/28/24 at 10:05 am to
It's not even about "getting" you.

MAGA/AF/Trump have ALWAYS relied on leftist economics to get support from the "labor" faction.

It's just now that discussion has moved from lessers (faceless white people from a halcyon view of the Midwest who need inefficient manufacturing jobs, who have been typically associated with unions for decades) to the educated/professional/credentialed class (who have been more of a "natural" Republican group for decades).

When faced with the economic realities of a society they don't want to keep up with, they revert to the same Leftism as the union baws. This comes as a major internal intellectual consistency issue, especially since they see themselves as different than the lesser MAGA types (who are more useful idiots and NPCs to repeat the messages the professional MAGA types create).

Now you have the educated/professional class arguing for collective bargaining, governmental intrusion into markets, and concepts like living wages.

This is the same shite I've been talking about since 2016 re: MAGA. Just now it's tactile with a real example to discuss.
This post was edited on 12/28/24 at 10:07 am
Posted by RohanGonzales
Member since Apr 2024
8451 posts
Posted on 12/28/24 at 10:07 am to
No, he exposed how weak the culture is by goading the rent-a-shriekers into shrieking.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
467749 posts
Posted on 12/28/24 at 10:10 am to
quote:

the rent-a-shriekers into shrieking.


Lauar Loomer, cernovich, catturd, etc.?
Posted by roadGator
Member since Feb 2009
154903 posts
Posted on 12/28/24 at 10:11 am to
quote:

One does not have to agree with Trump 100% of the time to want to MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN.


I certainly agree with you. We have some that do not. It’s a very small but very loud group though.
Posted by shel311
McKinney, Texas
Member since Aug 2004
112647 posts
Posted on 12/28/24 at 10:26 am to
quote:

Ok. Keep telling Americans that they are worthless and lazy. Let's see how that works.

Next, say that most trailer park trash support Trump. Burn it all down!
The same people saying this spend every day telling us how worthless 50% of America is.

Then Vivek says something similar and the same people that say the same thing are losing their minds.
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