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re: Biggest split in modern Orthodox history
Posted on 10/22/18 at 5:43 pm to bfniii
Posted on 10/22/18 at 5:43 pm to bfniii
quote:
wrong. not only are they implied in scripture, they absolutely had been implicitly taught
where are you getting your (mis)information?
No, they're not. In fact, it's quite the opposite. James says we are NOT saved by faith alone. Luther disagreed. It's why he wanted to remove James from the Bible. Jesus said He would judge us by how we cared for the poor and hungry. No mention of Sola Fide. Sola Scriptura can't be true since the Church existed for almost 400 years without it and it makes no claim to be the sole source of Christian dogma. Where do I get my facts? History. Find a Church document that ever advocated for Sola Fide and Sola Scriptura.
2
Posted on 10/22/18 at 5:45 pm to bfniii
quote:
wow. just admit you don't know history. luther was disgusted at how widespread and rampant the debauchery was among the roman priests. they had mistresses for crying out loud. luther was so infuriated, he went back home and started a continent wide rebellion
Ok Mr. Historian, please name your sources.
Posted on 10/22/18 at 6:17 pm to AUveritas
These threads are always fascinating as a third party observer.
The conviction with which highly educated, intelligent adults argue over complete nonsense is amazing.
The conviction with which highly educated, intelligent adults argue over complete nonsense is amazing.
Posted on 10/22/18 at 8:20 pm to bfniii
quote:
what the heck is this? there isn't "one true church." protestants are heretics? why? protestants can't be saved? why?
That's one of the things in the Roman church that changed with Vatican 2. Prior to it, those outside of Rome were lost. After it, they softened that stance. Pre Vatican 2 Latin Mass Roman Catholics still stick to the old view, the Novus Ordo people don't hold to that.
This post was edited on 10/22/18 at 8:21 pm
Posted on 10/22/18 at 8:23 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
The Body of Christ divides once again. The Great Schism of 1053 and the Protestant Reformation of 1517 are without a doubt Satan's greatest victories. This one is obviously not as great but it's a big one to be sure.
The protestant reformation was what saved the body of Christ.
The Roman Catholics are the great satan
Posted on 10/22/18 at 8:43 pm to Loserman
I grew up Catholic but now I just consider myself a Christian. Organized churches are full of drama just make things confusing for people like me who try to get as much knowledge as possible.
Posted on 10/22/18 at 10:29 pm to AUveritas
quote:yes they are.
No, they're not
quote:the bible says the opposite of the solas. wow.
In fact, it's quite the opposite
quote:so you don't understand james. that's all you had to say. that is NOT what james is saying. would you like for me to introduce you to some commentaries that can correct your misconception?
James says we are NOT saved by faith alone
quote:and he was mistaken on that matter.
Luther disagreed. It's why he wanted to remove James from the Bible
quote:which is preceded by saving faith and of course you would know that if you had studied james properly, such as james 2:23.
Jesus said He would judge us by how we cared for the poor and hungry
ftr, you are taking james at his word and are out serving the community, ministering to those who are hurting, giving of your time, you money, right?
quote:there is not one verse in the entire bible that contradicts sola fide. you made one attempt to show it and failed.
No mention of Sola Fide
quote:
Sola Scriptura can't be true since the Church existed for almost 400 years without it
holy cow you are deluded. have you ever heard of the rylands papyrus (p52)? do you know the significance of 1 cor 15:3-4? quote:jesus treated scripture as the true, infallible word of god. but you knew that already didn't you?
it makes no claim to be the sole source of Christian dogma
quote:the bible itself. the patristics.
Find a Church document that ever advocated for Sola Fide and Sola Scriptura.
listen, you and your assertions are precisely the kind of thing that causes many people to reject christianity, like david kinnamon wrote about in unchristian. i know you don't see that right now because you are indoctrinated. i'm trying to help you break out of that and see what is going on in the real world of christianity, not the institutionalized, bastardized version of it. you don't even know the history of the reformation. you have been inculcated with some nonsense whitewashed version of it. you know just enough to be dangerous
you are hurting the kingdom. please stop.
Posted on 10/22/18 at 10:30 pm to RollTide1987
quote:1054
The Body of Christ divides once again. The Great Schism of 1053 and the Protestant Reformation of 1517 are without a doubt Satan's greatest victories. This one is obviously not as great but it's a big one to be sure.
also, official churches of the "body of Christ" can divide millions of times. The actually body is always one. It's been that way since Pentecost, and it's not just Catholics, or just Protestants, Orthodox, etc.
It runs through them all!
This post was edited on 10/22/18 at 10:33 pm
Posted on 10/22/18 at 10:34 pm to AUveritas
You have no idea what sola scriptura means.
Posted on 10/22/18 at 10:35 pm to AUveritas
quote:
Ok Mr. Historian, please name your sources
what in the world is this? you want a "source" to tell you about the well known, abundantly documented history of the reformation? do you also need a source to tell you about the 30 years' war, the industrial revolution, Magellan, the american revolution, ww1, ww2, etc? how about ANY history textbook that covers that time period. start there.
Posted on 10/22/18 at 10:36 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:prove that it's nonsense.
complete nonsense
just because one person is not good at math, you don't throw math out the window.
Posted on 10/22/18 at 10:40 pm to AUveritas
quote:
wow. just admit you don't know history. luther was disgusted at how widespread and rampant the debauchery was among the roman priests. they had mistresses for crying out loud. luther was so infuriated, he went back home and started a continent wide rebellion
you must either teacher 7th grade church history at a Roman Catholic school or your child teaches you what they've been learning. Have a look at neutral history sometime. Literally no one shares your interpretation of Luther.
This post was edited on 10/22/18 at 10:41 pm
Posted on 10/23/18 at 1:20 am to RollTide1987
quote:
The Body of Christ divides once again. The Great Schism of 1053 and the Protestant Reformation of 1517 are without a doubt Satan's greatest victories. This one is obviously not as great but it's a big one to be sure.
satan's biggest victory was 325 AD
Posted on 10/23/18 at 5:13 am to bayoubengals88
quote:
You have no idea what sola scriptura means.
Sola - alone
Scriptura - Scripture
Next
Posted on 10/23/18 at 5:14 am to bfniii
quote:
what in the world is this? you want a "source" to tell you about the well known, abundantly documented history of the reformation? do you also need a source to tell you about the 30 years' war, the industrial revolution, Magellan, the american revolution, ww1, ww2, etc?
how about ANY history textbook that covers that time period. start there.
IOW, you don't have one. Gotcha.
Posted on 10/23/18 at 5:15 am to bayoubengals88
quote:
you must either teacher 7th grade church history at a Roman Catholic school or your child teaches you what they've been learning.
Have a look at neutral history sometime. Literally no one shares your interpretation of Luther.
As I stated, I'm not Catholic. However, facts are facts. Try again.
Posted on 10/23/18 at 6:20 am to OleWar
This seems to be about Russian political government wanting to incorporate the church as a control wing of government. Many right wing people here also want a church/government merger. It is disastrous for the church.
Posted on 10/23/18 at 6:38 am to AUveritas
What did thereforners say about sola Scriptura?
Posted on 10/23/18 at 7:19 am to bfniii
quote:
prove that it's nonsense.
That’s not how it works
The burden of proof lies with the person making the affirmative claim, which only one of us is doing. I’m simply claiming that without extraordinary evidence for your extraordinary claim it’s nonsensical to base ones entire life on that premise.
Your job is to provide the extraordinary evidence to dispute what is effectively the null hypothesis.
This post was edited on 10/23/18 at 7:23 am
Posted on 10/23/18 at 7:41 am to AUveritas
quote:
Those terrible heretical Protestants not believing in greasing the palms of the Catholic Church with money to absolve sins
I am converting to Orthodoxy from Catholicism so I'm no Catholic apologist but that's simply false. The Catholic Church has never held such a doctrine.
Dude, have you ever read some of the reasons for the Reformation? People gave money to the church because priests told them it would give them atonement before the Reformation.
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