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re: Bernie Sanders says that "health care is a basic human right"
Posted on 2/16/20 at 7:59 am to ShortyRob
Posted on 2/16/20 at 7:59 am to ShortyRob
For you morons arguing this, I hope the day doesn’t come when your wife, child or loved one of your choice gets ill and you can’t afford a life saving procedure because you don’t have a right to top quality healthcare because your not wealthy enough.
11
Posted on 2/16/20 at 7:59 am to Geekboy
quote:
Where in the Constitution does it say you have a right to police protection?
It doesn't and you don't
Posted on 2/16/20 at 8:00 am to Geekboy
Immediately to the emotional appeal. 2/10, try harder next time
Posted on 2/16/20 at 8:01 am to RollTide1987
Well, Bernie is a frickin' commie and there's that. So, any thing he says is garbage.
Posted on 2/16/20 at 8:20 am to dawgfan24348
quote:
People will abuse the system but that doesn't mean we should just abandon any notion of universal healthcare.
Of course we should. The government cannot process mail without losing massive amounts of money and being horribly inefficient, and YOU, wanna trust them with your life? Good luck.
In upstate NY, countless Canadians while on “vacation” happen to have a sudden onset of chest pain resulting in an ER visit and a subsequent emergent CABG due to multi vessel disease. Coincidence? Nope, the fact remains they are on a schedule to get a CABG in Canada if they live long enough to make their appointment. So what do they do? Well I kinda laid it out for you. And I don’t blame them. But let’s not even begin to act like government ran health care is good mmmmkkkk?
This post was edited on 2/16/20 at 8:31 am
Posted on 2/16/20 at 8:31 am to Geekboy
quote:Do you think that government run healthcare would be “top quality”?
For you morons arguing this, I hope the day doesn’t come when your wife, child or loved one of your choice gets ill and you can’t afford a life saving procedure because you don’t have a right to top quality healthcare because your not wealthy enough.
Posted on 2/16/20 at 8:37 am to RollTide1987
Entirely different because you are about to have your rights taken away if you are prosecuted
Posted on 2/16/20 at 8:39 am to Geekboy
quote:
For you morons arguing this, I hope the day doesn’t come when your wife, child or loved one of your choice gets ill and you can’t afford a life saving procedure because you don’t have a right to top quality healthcare because your not wealthy enough.
1. Not a moron.
2. If you need a life saving procedure in this country, you will get it, regardless of ability to pay. I see it EVERY day.
3. Now if you have money and don’t pay for insurance you will lose your assets, but you shoulda bought insurance, and everyone has the ability to buy insurance or get a job that provides it.
4. If you think for a second that people who really do need life saving procedures in countries with socialized medicine get them, you are the idiot. See my prior post in this thread for an example.
Posted on 2/16/20 at 8:39 am to ShortyRob
quote:
Health Care isn't provided by the Easter Bunny.
This is correct. I went into physics, not medicine
Posted on 2/16/20 at 8:40 am to FooManChoo
quote:
Do you think that government run healthcare would be “top quality”?
Bingo. Look at every government run organization and it is absolutely awful
VA, DMV, etc.
Hell, I just had a situation where our licensing board told me it would be 3 weeks before they could process my license because my background check was pending. Made a few calls and found out the people processing background checks, mailed it back over a week ago.
Yet idiots want government workers in charge of your health and possible life saving procedures
This post was edited on 2/16/20 at 8:42 am
Posted on 2/16/20 at 8:44 am to Geekboy
Healthcare is a limited resource.
It is always rationed. It is only a matter of which system you choose to ration it.
The free market system rations by price.
The government regulated system rations by power and relationships.
I would rather be in a price system because at least I know that if I can gather enough charity, go fund me, and other donations that I have a shot.
But if I'm on an official government 'DO NOT TREAT' list,
I am completely fricked with no chance.
It is always rationed. It is only a matter of which system you choose to ration it.
The free market system rations by price.
The government regulated system rations by power and relationships.
I would rather be in a price system because at least I know that if I can gather enough charity, go fund me, and other donations that I have a shot.
But if I'm on an official government 'DO NOT TREAT' list,
I am completely fricked with no chance.
Posted on 2/16/20 at 8:53 am to Geekboy
quote:Wrong question, Geekboy.
Where in the Constitution does it say you have a right to police protection?
The question is where in the Constitution does it say you are entitled to services of a free private investigator, or a free, armed, personal-protection security team (like Mike Anti-gun Bloomberg has)?
Posted on 2/16/20 at 8:57 am to TrueTiger
The only way we will improve quality and price is by transitioning to a true free market model of healthcare. Proof?
LASIK, a procedure not covered by insurance has increased in quality dramatically and dropped in costs by almost 80%, despite the cost of the laser needed to perform the surgery remaining stable. Competition works people.
Plastic Surgery (elective) has improved in quality yet prices have remained stable or decreased.
Healthcare is a very dynamic industry. And some protections are needed for those that are the most vulnerable among us. But to actually believe the government is the answer to solve the inefficiencies in the current system is naive. They have created most of the problems that exist in it today.
LASIK, a procedure not covered by insurance has increased in quality dramatically and dropped in costs by almost 80%, despite the cost of the laser needed to perform the surgery remaining stable. Competition works people.
Plastic Surgery (elective) has improved in quality yet prices have remained stable or decreased.
Healthcare is a very dynamic industry. And some protections are needed for those that are the most vulnerable among us. But to actually believe the government is the answer to solve the inefficiencies in the current system is naive. They have created most of the problems that exist in it today.
This post was edited on 2/16/20 at 9:00 am
Posted on 2/16/20 at 8:57 am to L.A.
Most liberals should be unelectable by anyone with intellectual honesty. They shite on the constitution in two ways - by claiming everything is a right (health care, driver licenses for illegals, etc) while completely wanting to disband immigration enforcement which is really one of very few areas of purview of the Feds, and neutering the second amendment. That’s not a preference for more spending or how we focus spending or political at all - it’s a dismantling of our Constitution.
Posted on 2/16/20 at 9:01 am to Jack Bauers HnK
quote:
You can’t have a right to another persons labor. That’s called slavery.
It’s too late. We’ve already voted ourselves into servitude. This is just the next step.
Posted on 2/16/20 at 9:04 am to RollTide1987
quote:
, does this mean that those men and women who can't afford an attorney don't have the right to have an attorney provided for them in a criminal trial?
The difference here is that there are legal professionals who choose to be public defenders to take on these cases. As a medical professional, you really don’t get to choose who you cover in the middle of the night going to surgery. You can’t say I won’t do surgery on this person who can’t afford it, send them to the public defender(in this case public surgeon). Basically you do the case for free( since >50% of on call cases are illegal aliens at this point), whereas the public defender who chooses that role at least knows he will be paid.
Posted on 2/16/20 at 9:07 am to LSURN98
quote:
The only way we will improve quality and price is by transitioning to a true free market model of healthcare. Proof?
e.g., Surgery Center of OklahomaPosted on 2/16/20 at 9:09 am to Geekboy
quote:
For you morons arguing this, I hope the day doesn’t come when your wife, child or loved one of your choice gets ill and you can’t afford a life saving procedure because you don’t have a right to top quality healthcare because your not wealthy enough.
Healthcare is a limited service...does a sociopathic murderer who has never worked and paid into the System deserve the same access to equal care as that of your wife, child or loved one?
Humanity has not 'Right' to survive; outside of fulfilling particular, qualifying behaviors. That is a Universal Law, and will NEVER be changed. Especially by the Idealist and unrealistic whims of well-intentioned but misguided people or Egalitarian Ideology.
The 'Pearly Gates' will be there for the duration.
Posted on 2/16/20 at 9:18 am to RollTide1987
quote:
Playing devil's advocate, does this mean that those men and women who can't afford an attorney don't have the right to have an attorney provided for them in a criminal trial?
This analogy breaks down on a very key point.
The 'right to counsel' arises for the accused in criminal prosecutions.
Let's say that no attorney can be found for the accused,
this means that the government will drop its prosecution, in which case no right is violated.
But in the case of healthcare if no doctor is available, there is nothing the government can do to avoid violating this 'right'.
There is no magic process the government can engage in in order to restore someone's health.
Posted on 2/16/20 at 9:19 am to L.A.
quote:
Could those of you who agree with him answer a couple of questions for me? 1. From where does this human right come? I doubt if Bernie means it comes from God since he is an atheist. 2. If you say he means the right comes from we the people, when did we the people agree on this? What is the exact date and location of the vote?
Not a Bernie supporter but I think poor people should be able to get medical treatment when they are ill so I guess for the sake of argument I fall into the category.
It’s not a right currently, he obviously knows that, but he feels it should be. So right now 1)the right comes from nobody but it would come from the people we’re he to be elected(which he won’t be), and 2) the date and time would be the next election.
Stupid flawed argument on your part.
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