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re: Are People Liberal; or Conservative By Nature?

Posted on 8/10/23 at 2:53 pm to
Posted by Corinthians420
Iowa
Member since Jun 2022
16104 posts
Posted on 8/10/23 at 2:53 pm to
quote:

Unfortunately, voters only get two terrible options for and elected position and end up leaning toward whatever their preferred media is telling them is the biggest issue that needs fixing.

It'll never get fixed, just new issues to divide people and slow down progress as a species. All to keep power hungry people fed and their pockets full.

Corruption is tough to overcome. When talking about Carthage picking leaders based on wealth Aristotle wrote this in 340 BC
quote:

Even if you must have regard to wealth, in order to secure leisure, yet it is surely a bad thing that the greatest offices, such as those of kings and generals, should be bought. The law which allows this abuse makes wealth of more account than virtue, and the whole state becomes avaricious.

For, whenever the chiefs of the state deem anything honorable, the other citizens are sure to follow their example; and, where virtue has not the first place, their aristocracy cannot be firmly established. Those who have been at the expense of purchasing their places will be in the habit of repaying themselves; and it is absurd to suppose that a poor and honest man will be wanting to make gains, and that a lower stamp of man who has incurred a great expense will not.
This post was edited on 8/10/23 at 2:54 pm
Posted by Obtuse1
Westside Bodymore Yo
Member since Sep 2016
30047 posts
Posted on 8/10/23 at 2:59 pm to
quote:

There is endless social science on this, mate. Leftism IS based in resentment and entitlement. Conservatism is based in Individual Liberty and personal responsibility. Have you READ and Rousseau or Burke? Marx vs say WFB? I mean, a teen could figure this out.


This reminds me of Clark in Good Will Hunting to which Will says:

quote:

Of course that's your contention. You're a first year grad student. You just got finished readin' some Marxian historian -- Pete Garrison probably. You're gonna be convinced of that 'til next month when you get to James Lemon, and then you're gonna be talkin' about how the economies of Virginia and Pennsylvania were entrepreneurial and capitalist way back in 1740. That's gonna last until next year -- you're gonna be in here regurgitating Gordon Wood, talkin' about, you know, the Pre-revolutionary utopia and the capital-forming effects of military mobilization.



Using philosophy as the hardened rapier of reason is simply doing it wrong.


The quote also applies to the thread in that the definition of conservative and liberal change constantly. The people running for office modify their "values" based on what they think will bring in the most votes. This jockeying for position has gone on for so long and is so prevalent that any definition of conservative or liberal has to contain a caveat of exactly when the snapshot was taken because two weeks before or two weeks later the people who influence each side's dogma may have changed their mind because it was politically expedient.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
298305 posts
Posted on 8/10/23 at 3:03 pm to
Many dependent people downvoting in this thread

There is a difference between liberal and progressive. liberals are bleeding hearts, progressives are militant social engineers.
This post was edited on 8/10/23 at 3:19 pm
Posted by Lsupimp
Ersatz Amerika-97.6% phony & fake
Member since Nov 2003
85545 posts
Posted on 8/10/23 at 3:04 pm to
We should all be in agreement that LACK of Institutional corruption (comparatively) was a great reason for our historical success.

The manner by which our Institutions have been compromised and corrupted by the organized Left is now our greatest threat. ONE Party overwhelmingly weaponized The State against the populace. One Party seeks to replace our most important American traditions, principles, Ideals and Institutions. FORWARD! The other party is just a bunch of lazy and useless Republicans who can't muster up the energy to fight back and just happy to CONSERVE anything but their power and prestige.
Posted by BayouFann
CenLa
Member since Jun 2012
7162 posts
Posted on 8/10/23 at 3:04 pm to
Stupid arse question. People are different
Posted by Corinthians420
Iowa
Member since Jun 2022
16104 posts
Posted on 8/10/23 at 3:08 pm to
quote:

We should all be in agreement that LACK of Institutional corruption (comparatively) was a great reason for our historical success.

The manner by which our Institutions have been compromised and corrupted by the organized Left is now our greatest threat. ONE Party overwhelmingly weaponized The State against the populace.

Dude both your parties are equally corrupt. One funneled money from the Ukraine war, the other funneled money through the Iraq war. If you think the right is less corrupt than the left than you are drinking too much of the kool-aid
Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
44345 posts
Posted on 8/10/23 at 3:12 pm to
quote:

Are People Liberal; or Conservative By Nature?
"Conservatism" is opposition or resistance to change.

If the human species were conservative by nature, we would all still be living as hunter/gatherers.

Constantly trying something new is why ours is the dominant species on the planet.
This post was edited on 8/10/23 at 3:16 pm
Posted by Corinthians420
Iowa
Member since Jun 2022
16104 posts
Posted on 8/10/23 at 3:16 pm to
quote:

The other party is just a bunch of lazy and useless Republicans who can't muster up the energy to fight back and just happy to CONSERVE anything but their power and prestige.

Which party passed the Patriot Act again? Trying to play this "lesser evil" game is stupid. Both parties are corrupt AF. I'm glad to see their divide and conquer strategy works on you so well though. You should study some psychology on that.
Posted by Lsupimp
Ersatz Amerika-97.6% phony & fake
Member since Nov 2003
85545 posts
Posted on 8/10/23 at 3:17 pm to
FIFY:

quote:

Constantly grooming somebody new is why Hank is the dominant driver in the Ice Cream Truck bidness.


Posted by VOR
New Orleans
Member since Apr 2009
67657 posts
Posted on 8/10/23 at 3:19 pm to
People aren’t born liberal or conservative. Those are social constructs that have nothing to do with biology. It’s really a matter of personality development and personal experience. But deep down, you know that.
Posted by chRxis
None of your fricking business
Member since Feb 2008
26776 posts
Posted on 8/10/23 at 3:20 pm to
quote:

I am conservative on somethings and liberal on others. It is very hard for a party or single idealogy to pigeon-hole me. And that is not by design, but more the product of natural, organic change.



same
Posted by Corinthians420
Iowa
Member since Jun 2022
16104 posts
Posted on 8/10/23 at 3:21 pm to
quote:

Are People Liberal; or Conservative By Nature?
"Conservatism" is opposition or resistance to change.

If the human species were conservative by nature, we would all still be living as hunter/gatherers.

Constantly trying something new is why ours is the dominant species on the planet.

Apparently it was an evolutionary advantage to have half conservative and half "liberal" in our tribes.

In studying the natural sleep cycles of humans they found some are naturally tuned to stay awake later, this wouldve also been an evolutionary advantage to have someone on guard to protect the tribe.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
298305 posts
Posted on 8/10/23 at 3:22 pm to
quote:


Which party passed the Patriot Act again?


Both
Congrats on the continued education
Posted by Corinthians420
Iowa
Member since Jun 2022
16104 posts
Posted on 8/10/23 at 3:26 pm to
quote:

Both

Yep. Both are equally corrupt.

It was passed into law by the Republican president, voted on unanimously by Republicans, and also introduced by a Republican.

The "One side is evil and the other side is just lazy, incapable" line is sad. If you really believe it is just laziness and ineptitude rather than intentional it's just as bad to vote for them regardless.
This post was edited on 8/10/23 at 3:28 pm
Posted by BigTigerJoe
Member since Aug 2022
11562 posts
Posted on 8/10/23 at 3:28 pm to
quote:

Are People Liberal; or Conservative By Nature?

Try good versus evil by nature.

Some conservatives call out other conservatives when they are being evil.

The silence for the majority of liberals calling out evil liberals is almost deafening.
Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
44345 posts
Posted on 8/10/23 at 3:30 pm to
quote:

quote:

The other party is just a bunch of lazy and useless Republicans who can't muster up the energy to fight back and just happy to CONSERVE anything but their power and prestige.
Which party passed the Patriot Act again?
It passed the Senate at 98-1 (the only "no" was a Dem). Hard to blame either party for that one.

OBL gave us the Patriot Act.
This post was edited on 8/10/23 at 3:32 pm
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
298305 posts
Posted on 8/10/23 at 3:32 pm to
Wasn't voted unanimously by Republicans

Every president since has signed extensions, Government is the problem, period

Posted by Corinthians420
Iowa
Member since Jun 2022
16104 posts
Posted on 8/10/23 at 3:36 pm to
quote:

Wasn't voted unanimously by Republicans


The vote was 98-1 with the lone nay being the Dem from Wisconsin.

It was not unanimous in the House but out of the 66 nay votes only 3 were Republicans.

The Republicans controlled the government, they wanted the Patriot Act to pass. That refutes the poster I was responding to saying the Republicans tm didnt push for any corruption, just didn't fight against it.
Posted by Lsupimp
Ersatz Amerika-97.6% phony & fake
Member since Nov 2003
85545 posts
Posted on 8/10/23 at 3:39 pm to
It's a matter of CONTEXT and DEGREE. When we acknowledge the tragic nature of humanity first as Conservatives do, we inherently understand that corruption is baked into the human recipe. It's inescapable. Thus it becomes a matter of degree.

And if one possesses basic reading skills, intellectual discernment and historical literacy we understand that The Left has a capacity for evil (100 million dead in the last century for instance) that exceeds anything that proponents of Individual Liberty could ever devise.

Bottom line-if you don't think the corrupt Democrat Party and their woke philosophy that controls virtually every major Institution in America is more corrupt than the feckless Republicans, than who am I to disabuse you? I mean what could be more corrupt than destroying the biological fact of two genders? How about weaponizing the judiciary? How about stealing elections? How about villifying all opponents as racist? How about turning the White House into a crime family at the behest of our global enemies? How about weaponizing the IRS? How about Instituting Speech laws? How about killing comedy and rational inquiry in lieu of woke platitudes? How about assisting riots and bloodshed and burning down businesses? How about shooting up the Republican softball game? How about assaulting Republican lawmakers and putting at least one in the hospital? How about destroying our greatest American cities one woke policy at a time?

This idea you have that both parties are EQUALLY culpable is laughable.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
298305 posts
Posted on 8/10/23 at 3:40 pm to
quote:


It was not unanimous in the House


You say?

As, Obama signed extensions. Power is any politicians dream.

This post was edited on 8/10/23 at 3:42 pm
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