re: Angola Farm Line lawsuit will determine if forced prison labor is unconstitutional

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Our faith calls us as individuals to act in certain ways- what you won’t find is that it calls on governments as much to do so.

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Very true. My pushback is asking who makes up the government? Individuals.

Even removing government from the equation, Christians (especially Christians who are quick to quote Bible verses) presumably aspire to live by the verses contained in the Bible. We should, as Christians, advocate for the humane treatment of all of our brothers and sisters without exception.

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Applying instructions for personal action to an expectation that a decidedly secular government do the same is unreasonable.

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This would be where SCOTUS precedent takes over.

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I can use biblical interpretation, if you’d like.

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No it seems you are unable to with any honest attempt.

Example

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Hebrews 13:3 states: “Continue to remember those in prison as if you were together with them in prison, and those who are mistreated as if you yourselves were suffering.”

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Now let us note a couple things, the chapter starts out in verse 1 with:

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"Keep on loving one another as brothers and sisters."

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So who was this written to?
Hebrews 1 points out

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"In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe."

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This seems to be speaking to Hebrews who followed Jesus.

In fact just later he celebrates in Chapter 14
22 Brothers and sisters, I urge you to bear with my word of exhortation, for in fact I have written to you quite briefly.
23 I want you to know that our brother Timothy has been released. If he arrives soon, I will come with him to see you.
24 Greet all your leaders and all the Lord’s people. Those from Italy send you their greetings.

No matter how much you want it to be, this is a limited exhortation.

To note, the and part carves out a separate statement for those who were mistreated. As people can be In prison, and not abused, in prison and abused, or not in prison and abused.

Now you should read the verse after the one you quoted as well

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4 Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.

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Ah yes, the sexually immoral, we should probably point this out to them that they need to be saved from their sexual immorality... Especially if you take Hebrews 13 as so important to follow.

Now lets break down how you use one verse out of context.

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That directive does not carve out exceptions based on guilt, popularity, or social standing.

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No, but it does speak of followers of Christ, and the exhortation is to remember them, not to free them, not to reject their imprisonment as unjust.

You would do well to note the behavior of Paul and Silas in prison in Acts

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26 Suddenly there was such a violent earthquake that the foundations of the prison were shaken. At once all the prison doors flew open, and everyone’s chains came loose. 27 The jailer woke up, and when he saw the prison doors open, he drew his sword and was about to kill himself because he thought the prisoners had escaped. 28 But Paul shouted, “Don’t harm yourself! We are all here!”

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He didn't say let everyone go, they stayed in prison, more so his complaint about his imprisonment was due to the illegality of the situation, as he was a Roman Citizen.

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35 When it was daylight, the magistrates sent their officers to the jailer with the order: “Release those men.” 36 The jailer told Paul, “The magistrates have ordered that you and Silas be released. Now you can leave. Go in peace.”

37 But Paul said to the officers: “They beat us publicly without a trial, even though we are Roman citizens, and threw us into prison. And now do they want to get rid of us quietly? No! Let them come themselves and escort us out.”

38 The officers reported this to the magistrates, and when they heard that Paul and Silas were Roman citizens, they were alarmed. 39 They came to appease them and escorted them from the prison, requesting them to leave the city.

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This does not seem like a man who sees prison as a moral wrong.

In fact in Romans 13 he clearly says

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13 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.

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And submit he did.

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It explicitly instructs people to recognize the humanity of those who are incarcerated and to remain attentive to their mistreatment.

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You can't use the world explicitly and then insert your own view of it.
There is no comment on humanity at all, it was a letter written about Christians for Christians. The Brothers and Sisters of Christ are indeed told to submit to civil government, and yes they stay with each other in spirit and prayer, the large amount of prison ministries shows this.

But no where in there does prison always = Mistreatment. You are inserting your own post modern ideas into this, you ignore the verses before and after, you ignore the chapter, you ignore the book, you ignore the author's other books.

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More importantly

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Than the Bible? Do tell.

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the legal standard does not depend on my personal feelings or yours

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You should probably quote me when you parrot me.

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The Supreme Court has repeatedly held that prison conditions violate the Eighth Amendment when they expose incarcerated people to preventable harm or demonstrate deliberate indifference to their safety and well-being.

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Which the 13th explicitly states does not include forced labor, SCOTUS does not have the power to overwrite the 13th, and they didn't, are you speaking of Farmer v. Brennan which makes no reference to labor of any kind as falling under 8th amendment purview.
ETA: It looks like you looked up each of the cases, but again, look at your title.

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Angola Farm Line lawsuit will determine if forced prison labor is unconstitutional

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You seem to be backing up to the point that some forms of prison labor may be too dangerous and thus trip the 8th.
That is a far cry from your opening.

As if a child keeps closing their eyes when swinging at a pitch, you can either cheer them on knowing they will continue to miss, or try to point out where they fall short.

I'm sure you would opt for the former, as you would see it as more "polite".

Your brother and his friends committed an act of retribution- right or wrong, that’s not the same as raw violence.

I really don’t want to use your situation as an example because I honestly don’t want to step on your toes. So, I’m just going to stop right there.

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Those adaptations are often incompatible with functioning successfully outside of that hostile environment. Our recidivism rates prove as much.

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Those incompatibilities are WHY these people are incarcerated. I believe you are confusing cause and effect.

So Trayvon and Sandra…. Ready to talk yet?

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Studies indicate

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Have you ever visited a department of corrections facility? Interactions with real world convicts might give you a different prospective. Most of my professors in college that taught sociology classes had never interacted with anyone related to coursework.

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Have you ever visited a department of corrections facility?

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Several across the state over the years.

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Interactions with real world convicts might give you a different prospective

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I have multiple interactions with multiple real world convicts every day.

Narax, you’ve reached the point where you have to invent things I never said just to have something to argue against. It’s lazy. I’m not going to spend my time copy-pasting my own posts just to keep you honest. Anyone with a third-grade reading level can scroll up and see you’re lying.

You are manipulating scripture to force it to support your personal biases. Eisegesis does not command moral authority. It’s another lazy tactic employed when someone can’t make an honest,cohesive, or compelling argument. You are attempting to use the Bible to justify a legal subset of humans who deserve cruelty, yet you ignore that Jesus explicitly identified Himself with the prisoner in Matthew 25. He didn't say, 'I was in prison and you rightfully exploited my labor per the 13th Amendment.' He demanded mercy.

You are the modern day embodiment of a Pharisee.

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Narax, you’ve reached the point where you have to invent things I never said just to have something to argue against.

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Sigh...
Every time you've said that I've gone and looked up the exact posts you've made. Again and again I've done that.
You seem to not remember things you posted, as well as misremembering things I've said.
I can go into examples where you've accused me of this from other threads, and I linked you your words that led to such a conclusion.

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It’s lazy.

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I’m not going to spend my time copy-pasting my own posts just to keep you honest.

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Because you tried multiple times and it turned out the only one "misremembering" was you. You know these accusations of yours are going to end the same way.

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Anyone with a third-grade reading level can scroll up and see you’re lying.

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It looks like someone did, and yet again you were dishonest.

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You are manipulating scripture to force it to support your personal biases.

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Sigh... No, I actually believe scripture. Scripture is the Word of God, I went through the verse you referenced in error, I went through the chapter, referenced the rest of the book, reviewed the author's time in prison.

Scripture determines my world views, not visa versa, can you say the same?

That is called a commitment to understanding God's word, something you are showing yourself to be unfamiliar with.

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Eisegesis does not command moral authority.

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Hmm, as you are often sloppy with your definitions let's review

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Eisegesis is the process of interpreting a text, especially scripture, by reading one's own biases, personal assumptions, or cultural, subjective, and theological views into it rather than drawing meaning out

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Lets see, you quoted one verse out of context to support your current modern day political crusade.
I read it in it's context, and attempted to see the explicit meaning of the verse.
A small amount of critical thinking might have led you to see yourself in that.
But you never do. Why is that?

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It’s another lazy tactic employed when someone can’t make an honest,cohesive, or compelling argument.

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Really, do tell, Freud would have much to say about your comments.
I've been pushing you for a cohesive or compelling argument for some time... and you responded with one verse out of context... one might say... eisegesis!

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You are attempting to use the Bible to justify a legal subset of humans who deserve cruelty

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Wow... Talk about that infamous strawman you keep referring to Dr. Freud.
I noted that prison labor is Not Cruelty, you insist it is with zero explanation why, there is no historical, religious, or legal precedent for your view.
You referenced Supreme Court cases (Did you read the entire case?) Some of those cases point out some of the situations involved in prison labor may trip the 8th, but as a whole those cases have maintained that prison labor by itself is NOT Cruel of Unusual Punishment, as if some extreme cases may trip the 8th, then most do not.

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yet you ignore that Jesus explicitly identified Himself with the prisoner in Matthew 25.

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Go on...

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He didn't say, 'I was in prison and you rightfully exploited my labor per the 13th Amendment.' He demanded mercy.

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Wow...
How about you use his actual words instead of your habit of paraphrasing things as you think they should have been said.

The first part of the King

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34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

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Yes, visiting those in prison.

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37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

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Now again, I am a full supporter of Prison Ministries, Prison outreach. And yes, we clothe and care for our prisoners, and yes that would also trip the 8th if we didn't, explicitly in some of those cases.

Now it gets repeated again.

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41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

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For your information to visit is also translated as "to come" from the Greek word erchomai

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to come
of persons
to come from one place to another, and used both of persons arriving and of those returning
to appear, make one's appearance, come before the public

metaph.
to come into being, arise, come forth, show itself, find place or influence
be established, become known, to come (fall) into or unto

to go, to follow one

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No where in there did he mention "Demanding Mercy"
You made that up.

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You are the modern day embodiment of a Pharisee.

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I don't think you know what that means. I think you have an idea in your head of what it means, but you really really do not show any care for the words of God in this post.

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Like she really likes Jesuits kinda Catholic

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From what she's said, I think she prefers the Vincentians. Who have pretty much all the social justice aspects of the Jesuits (maybe even a bit more), with only about half of the academic rigor.

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After I I was raped in college, my brother and his friends (who I grew up with) beat the shite out of the guy who did it.

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That is horrible, Cubs. So sorry you went through that.

FTR, it sounds like he was lucky. Not kidding.

After his beating though, I wonder what his recidivism rate was. I'm not being facetious. Perhaps his "victimization" led to an epiphany of sorts, and a good life afterwards? Ironically, your brother may have done him a solid.