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re: An independent nation has THE RIGHT to sovereignty, AND to have their arse kicked
Posted on 3/5/22 at 2:17 pm to Ag Zwin
Posted on 3/5/22 at 2:17 pm to Ag Zwin
quote:
It boggles my mind that people are unable to see the point being made.
I am not absolving Putin of anything anymore than I would absolve Hitler for WWII.
You're delusional, though, if you ignore that the seeds for Hitler were sowed (to a large degree) by the terms of Versailles.
You can't create the conditions for something bad happening AND claim you had no role in something bad happening...
Stay with it; You're one of the few who are on point, providing excellent historical insight, clarity and context though the emotional muck & mire and political theater.
2
Posted on 3/5/22 at 2:28 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Fortunately it did not get that far, else we'd be in WWIII.
Au contraire assuming that this is really about NATO instead of being an excuse.
Putin has made it clear hes scared to death of attacking a Nato country given he shares a border with two nato countries with ports but didnt attack them.
If the west would have let Ukraine in after they wanted to in 2014 then putin would have been too scared to attack.
Posted on 3/5/22 at 2:47 pm to Adam Banks
quote:
Putin has made it clear hes scared to death of attacking a Nato country given he shares a border with two nato countries with ports but didnt attack them.
If the west would have let Ukraine in after they wanted to in 2014 then putin would have been too scared to attack.
Possibly, but the window may have already been closed then.
The Baltics were "lucky" to get in before Putin started drawing lines too deeply in the sand. They were able to get democratic and economic stability quickly enough to qualify.
Once Putin fully channeled his inner Stalin and said "Don't get any closer", I'm not sure any other former Soviet republic could do anything but be a buffer without triggering what we have now.
He probably won't do anything about the Warsaw Pact guys, and I doubt he would deliberately trigger Article V by going after the Baltics. I think he believes that NATO would finally hit back at that point.
Maybe.
This post was edited on 3/5/22 at 2:49 pm
Posted on 3/5/22 at 3:11 pm to BayouBlitz
quote:
Okay Vladimir. Keep bombing citizens.
That was Biden who bombed women and children just to save face
Posted on 3/5/22 at 3:12 pm to Lsupimp
quote:sorry but this looked like you disagreed with his point about Versailles. With such pithy responses woefully short on any substance I can't exactly read your mind. Apologies
dear lord just stop
Posted on 3/5/22 at 3:38 pm to UncleFestersLegs
There was nothing pithy about my more definitive statement earlier in the thread. I can’t write a volume with every response because you have ADHD. Apology accepted.
Posted on 3/5/22 at 4:41 pm to Tigers0891
quote:
Let's take geopolitical advice from a guy that lives on an island full of reefer madness and machete killings.
Or originates from said island.
The item you referring to is a cutlass, per Wiki...
In the English-speaking Caribbean, such as Jamaica, Barbados, Guyana, and Grenada and in Trinidad and Tobago, the term cutlass is used for these agricultural tools.
Given you cant understand the correct nouns for items in different cultures, its no surprise your geopolitical musings are quite elementary.
And I live on a beautiful island, one you save up an entire year just to visit for a week, Id say I have the better end of the deal. Though I do have an undergrad from Auburn and a Masters from Tulane, which means I can smell your corndog arse before you even land in the Caribbean
Posted on 3/5/22 at 4:43 pm to Liberator
quote:
Stay with it; You're one of the few who are on point, providing excellent historical insight, clarity and context though the emotional muck & mire and political theater.
I wholeheartedly agree.
Posted on 3/5/22 at 4:56 pm to trinidadtiger
quote:
And I live on a beautiful island, one you save up an entire year just to visit for a week
Posted on 3/5/22 at 5:02 pm to Liberator
quote:
Stay with it; You're one of the few who are on point, providing excellent historical insight, clarity and context though the emotional muck & mire and political theater.
Not sure I can take that much credit. I read a lot of history, but this whole thing is more political reality, and Realpolitik was a concept that kept the Cold War cold.
I just don't understand how people have such a hard time understanding that what happens in cases like this has little to do with what is "fair" or "justified".
Russians are a LOT more paranoid than we are, but they also have centuries of invasions (both "by" and "of") that frame their worldview. We have almost never faced that. (Not to mention the 3/4 of a century they spent being imprisoned and enslaved from within.)
Lately, I have developed a better appreciation for how statesmen in the Cold War were able to find solutions that moved tectonic plates but kept things from boiling over.
As for Putin, NC Tigah said it really well in another thread:
quote:
Kind of like walking down a public Park Path, only to encounter a large Eastern Diamondback coiled and rattling. You have every right to be on that path, and you have no intention of threatening the snake. But the snake doesn't realize that. Even though you meant the snake no ill-will, if you just back off a little, it will relax and eventually slither away. If you don't back off, it's likely it will strike, and when it does, it ain't like you weren't warned!
Posted on 3/5/22 at 5:05 pm to Adam Banks
quote:Apparently those who were so motivated, thought differently.
If the west would have let Ukraine in after they wanted to in 2014 then putin would have been too scared to attack.
quote:Everyone has their tolerances. SomeDude might scare hell out of Adam Banks. Adam Banks might cow away at every personal affront. But if that same somedude crosses a red line and insults or lays hands on MsAdamBanks, the dude's suddenly in a world of hurt. He finds not only is Adam willing to fight, he's suddenly pretty damn motivated. For lil ole cowing Adam, that dude crossed the line in touching your girl. When he wakes-up in the middle of next week, he realizes red lines are important.
Putin has made it clear hes scared to death of attacking a Nato country
At some point, dignity and necessity outstrip fear.
I've addressed this in your terms. IMO, "fear" probably plays a minimist role with Putin. Putin is about risk:benefit analysis. R vs B in terms of the Baltic States in NATO was very high. With Ukraine, not so much.
Posted on 3/5/22 at 6:07 pm to OGtigerfan87
quote:
This is pure delusion. Ukraine has done nothing to warrant an invasion. This is a power grab by a tyrannical despot who is quickly becoming a war criminal. Nothing more.
In theory, you're correct. But in reality, you're very incorrect, imo.
Hypothetically, if someone were sitting in a three cushion couch, and directly tells you that if you sit on that same couch, he will attack you. The question you have to answer isn't whether that person is rational or not. The question you have to ask is... do you feel lucky?
What I'm saying is, you, or we, don't get to decide what Putin should consider rational, or provocative. He directly told us those things. And yet we kept provoking, and supporting others who provoked him. It doesn't matter whether we considered it provocative or not.
Posted on 3/5/22 at 6:12 pm to Adam Banks
quote:
When did Ukraine join NATO?
He didn't. That's why he separated the two
Posted on 3/5/22 at 6:15 pm to trinidadtiger
quote:
Can we please get off the sovereign country bullshitee
Good thing we didn't listen to your kind in the late 1770's.
#ScrewYourFreedom!
This post was edited on 3/5/22 at 6:16 pm
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