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re: An Appeal For "Traditional Conservatives" to reconsider Populism.
Posted on 6/9/24 at 10:38 am to DisplacedBuckeye
Posted on 6/9/24 at 10:38 am to DisplacedBuckeye
I'm disappointed in this thread. I was hopeful that we could deconstruct some things and uncover some common ground. But people revert to bomb throwing and straw man b.s.
Why?
We all agree that this country is headed to disaster. None of us, I suppose, feel we are really represented in the current government. Why would we tear each other apart and not seek common ground when we face the same enemy and that enemy is destroying this country.
Why?
We all agree that this country is headed to disaster. None of us, I suppose, feel we are really represented in the current government. Why would we tear each other apart and not seek common ground when we face the same enemy and that enemy is destroying this country.
This post was edited on 6/9/24 at 10:42 am
1
Posted on 6/9/24 at 10:39 am to Great Plains Drifter
quote:
They also tend to consistently ignore or blow right by questions challenging the opportunity that conservatives had over and over to make a difference. History for them begins in 2016.
Some of them also can’t help themselves but take broadsides at the working class (trailer park observations). This hint of elitism/disdain for those they perceive “beneath them”, smacks of the same coastal progressive mindset that they know what’s better for you than you do….just coming from a different angle.
Holy crap.. exactly!! This by a thousand!
Posted on 6/9/24 at 10:40 am to BCreed1
quote:
past GOPEs
Including 2017-2021.
Military and entitlements need to be cut, badly. If not, we will owe more in interest payments soon than we spend on government.
Populists refuse to do the things necessary to right the ship. Sounds like your GOPE is populist. They'll keep doing stupid shite to get re-elected.
Posted on 6/9/24 at 10:40 am to prattalumni
quote:
This hint of elitism/disdain for those they perceive “beneath them”,
Only when they form political clubs and advocate stupid shite.
Posted on 6/9/24 at 10:43 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Its the same protesters who protest everything under the sun and want to end capitalism.
I understand there will always be a faction who never let a crisis go to waste, but to suggest that makes the OWS position anti capitalism is a premise anyone with a shred of intellectual honesty should reject.
Too big to fail is anti capitalism.
Posted on 6/9/24 at 10:45 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Military and entitlements need to be cut, badly. If not, we will owe more in interest payments soon than we spend on government.
Now here we can agree. I do think we need to cut spending. We do need to reduce the size of government. We might disagree on some of the specifics, but we can agree that the size of government must be reduced.
Posted on 6/9/24 at 10:47 am to ItNeverRains
quote:
I understand there will always be a faction who never let a crisis go to waste, but to suggest that makes the OWS position anti capitalism is a premise anyone with a shred of intellectual honesty should reject.
Like every populist movement since the beginning of time, it was hijacked.
quote:
The Canadian anti-consumerist magazine Adbusters initiated the call for a protest.[8] The main issues raised by Occupy Wall Street were social and economic inequality, greed, corruption and the undue influence of corporations on government—particularly from the financial services sector. The OWS slogan, "We are the 99%", refers to income and wealth inequality in the U.S. between the wealthiest 1% and the rest of the population.
This post was edited on 6/9/24 at 10:49 am
Posted on 6/9/24 at 10:50 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Like every populist movement since the beginning of time, it was hijacked.
Because that is true only with regards to populism
Posted on 6/9/24 at 10:51 am to RiverCityTider
quote:
Why?
This is why:
LINK
Posters like that aren't interested in what's best for this country.
You were sold something you didn't get, and you expect the rest to play along.
Posted on 6/9/24 at 10:52 am to RiverCityTider
quote:
The problem is that populism (on the right) is being mischaracterized.
The truth is that within any classification, there are some to the right and some to the left. Doesn't matter if it conservatives, liberal, marxists...etc
In this box, you have Liberals... You have some that agree with some of the center issues and then you have those to the total opposite side of that.. total marxists.
It's the same in our box. Conservative Populists are conservative. The populist part is where Rogers and a few get hung up on. The few differences seem to be (based on conversations) is that Roger is a libertarian with conservative leanings. He somewhat wants no gov. We, on the other hand, believe that there is a roll for gov and it is to uphold the constitution. We do believe that vital needs of the American people should be produced in America. We do not believe the USA is the worlds sugar daddy. We do not believe in welfare state....etc.
Posted on 6/9/24 at 10:53 am to ItNeverRains
quote:
Because that is true only with regards to populism
Bottom up "democracies" are easy to hijack. Theyre' all led by the same dipshits.
You end this problem with fiscal policy, not with regulation.
Posted on 6/9/24 at 10:54 am to SDVTiger
quote:
All these years of "conservatism" what has it gotten you?
What has it gotten me? I can’t believe you ask. I am 61 years old. When I was 34 I had next to nothing besides a good wife and a fairly good job - no savings to speak of. I started a business with some partners. We didn’t have to kiss anyone’s arse to do it. We didn’t have to bribe anyone, either. Nearly 30 years later We are wealthy men. THAT’s what it gave me - the opportunity. We seized it.
Had I not, had I stayed in my job, I would still have had a great life. I would have raised a family, in the highest living standards for a middle class family, in the history of mankind. It gave me THAT opportunity as well.
Posted on 6/9/24 at 10:54 am to RiverCityTider
I've tried reading thru this thread several times and there's a lot here to discuss.
So, I'd like to add the one thing I have not found discussed too much but is sort of the root of all the failures of 'populism'
We do not have a free press.
The ONLY way generic 'populism' to be sensible is IF there is complete access to the TRUTH - and NO restriction on logical discussions to determine what that TRUTH is.
We will never be able to achieve ABSOLUTE truth - but we SHOULD at least remove as many BARRIORs to the search as possible. What we are suffering from now - is propaganda disguised as 'truth.'
How long this has been going on is hard to pinpoint, but it certainly began to be obvious to anyone paying attention with Clinton's administration. And I think that idea became a lure when 'progressives' saw how easy it was to unseat someone as capable as Richard Nixon - with nothing more than slanted 'headlines' and focused 'interviews.'
I believe Clinton started the tactic of imbedding ideologues into the bowels of the Civil Service, especially in places like the DOJ and CIA. Obama really concentrated on that. I believe he is the one who opened the flood gates on enabling LAWFARE. During his last month in office, he also relaxed the constraints on 'compartmentalizing' intelligence activities so that a whole bunch more people at lower levels had access to information that could then be "leaked" to 'right' people in the "press" to create such travesties as the RUSSIA COLLUSION story.
And here we are today - fearful of our government - when the government ought to be fearful of its population.
So, I'd like to add the one thing I have not found discussed too much but is sort of the root of all the failures of 'populism'
We do not have a free press.
The ONLY way generic 'populism' to be sensible is IF there is complete access to the TRUTH - and NO restriction on logical discussions to determine what that TRUTH is.
We will never be able to achieve ABSOLUTE truth - but we SHOULD at least remove as many BARRIORs to the search as possible. What we are suffering from now - is propaganda disguised as 'truth.'
How long this has been going on is hard to pinpoint, but it certainly began to be obvious to anyone paying attention with Clinton's administration. And I think that idea became a lure when 'progressives' saw how easy it was to unseat someone as capable as Richard Nixon - with nothing more than slanted 'headlines' and focused 'interviews.'
I believe Clinton started the tactic of imbedding ideologues into the bowels of the Civil Service, especially in places like the DOJ and CIA. Obama really concentrated on that. I believe he is the one who opened the flood gates on enabling LAWFARE. During his last month in office, he also relaxed the constraints on 'compartmentalizing' intelligence activities so that a whole bunch more people at lower levels had access to information that could then be "leaked" to 'right' people in the "press" to create such travesties as the RUSSIA COLLUSION story.
And here we are today - fearful of our government - when the government ought to be fearful of its population.
Posted on 6/9/24 at 10:56 am to ChineseBandit58
quote:
And here we are today - fearful of our government - when the government ought to be fearful of its population.
Because despite what we claim, the same Congressmen, Presidents, Mayors mostly get voted back into office.
We control this shite. Populists just want to pretend "we" dont.
Posted on 6/9/24 at 10:58 am to RiverCityTider
quote:
Now Roger, your telling me what I believe. Your reading my mind and revealing my beliefs.
He is telling you what you believe rather than reading and listening.
He's so ingrained in the GOPE that you can not have a logical discussion on SS vs Welfare...etc. It's simply "You are a socialist because you want it"... when nobody is saying that.
Like I said, Roger is a libertarian.
Posted on 6/9/24 at 10:59 am to RogerTheShrubber
I live in reality. You should ask yourself that question frankly if you think your views are anywhere close to being accurate
Posted on 6/9/24 at 10:59 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
RogerTheShrubber
You say populism’s natural progression is communism. I don’t necessarily disagree. Would you say “tax the rich” also has a natural progression to communism?
Posted on 6/9/24 at 10:59 am to BCreed1
quote:
He's so ingrained in the GOPE
Youre a talking point machine.
This GOPE you complain about, guess who leads it?
Posted on 6/9/24 at 11:01 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Explain to me how Trump is any different.
Thanks.
I have many many times. GOPE is all about crony capitalism as proven by the caving in of them to the Koch brothers and mega farmers over illegal immigration. Trump is for a merit based legal immigration with strong borders.
That's just one example, but a massive one.
Posted on 6/9/24 at 11:01 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Conservative Populists are conservative. The populist part is where Rogers and a few get hung up on. The few differences seem to be (based on conversations) is that Roger is a libertarian with conservative leanings. He somewhat wants no gov. We, on the other hand, believe that there is a roll for gov and it is to uphold the constitution. We do believe that vital needs of the American people should be produced in America. We do not believe the USA is the worlds sugar daddy. We do not believe in welfare state....etc.
And my understanding is Roger is a Ron Paul guy.
I am as well.
Hamilton and Jefferson stood together to defeat the royalists before they tore into one another.
We need more of that as we are basically at war.
Roger needs to wake up.
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