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re: A Turtledove Story of South African History (possible Land Use Solution added on p.4)

Posted on 8/27/18 at 6:04 pm to
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
135735 posts
Posted on 8/27/18 at 6:04 pm to
quote:

Holy Crap, did you finish High School?
Now that is an unintentionally abstract thought.

But to snatch your rhetorical back from abstraction to reality, yes I finished high school.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
135735 posts
Posted on 8/27/18 at 6:08 pm to
quote:

My GOD you are slow. The LAND is the collateral.


The collateral land would be the same land owned by the folks it is being "purchased" from????

In the investment community, we'd politely refer to that as over-leveraged.
This post was edited on 8/27/18 at 6:09 pm
Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
44345 posts
Posted on 8/27/18 at 6:13 pm to
No, dimwit, it is analogous to owner-financing. The government acquires the land and then sells it to the former employee-buyer and provides the financing ... in order to satisfy a governmental/social goal.

Is it more “leveraged” than any bank would approve? YES, you moron. I have been saying that since the FIRST post. You keep looking at this as someone seeking a PROFIT. That is NOT the goal here.

For God’s sake, this is like talking to a fence post.

But by all means, DO continue trying to make a point with emoticons.
This post was edited on 8/27/18 at 6:17 pm
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
135735 posts
Posted on 8/27/18 at 6:17 pm to
quote:

No, dimwit
quote:

you moron
quote:

a fence post
Sweetheart, you'd do much much better without the invectives.



But let's address this in the racist terms you seem to better understand. . . . .
quote:

it is called owner-financing
The owner is WHITE
Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
44345 posts
Posted on 8/27/18 at 6:20 pm to
You repeatedly call me a racist for engaging in a logic exercise, and then get whiny because I question your intelligence due to your inability to focus? Good Lord.

The “owner” is not White. In this exercise, the FORMER owner (from whom the government acquired it) was White.
This post was edited on 8/27/18 at 6:24 pm
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
135735 posts
Posted on 8/27/18 at 6:23 pm to
quote:

You repeatedly call me a racist
No.
I've called your "abstractions" racist, Aggie.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
135735 posts
Posted on 8/27/18 at 6:31 pm to
quote:

In this exercise, the FORMER owner (from whom the government acquired it) was White.
Here we go again . . .

. . . . . . . . And who would the """FORMER owner""" be?







Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
44345 posts
Posted on 8/27/18 at 6:52 pm to
“Here we go again” indeed.

Yes, the “former owner” in this instance would be White. That is not racist. That is simply a statement of fact, given the premises set forth in the question presented. “How can we transfer x-number of acres without ruining the economy or starving people?”

if someone asks you the probability of rolling a seven with two 6-sided dice, you can safely answer “one of six“ without condoning the concept of gambling.

We are not discussing whether south Africa SHOULD implement a policy of land redistribution via eminent domain. We are asking how south Africa COULD implement such a redistribution, assuming that’s decision had been made to do so.

Why does this basic concept go so far over your head?
This post was edited on 8/27/18 at 6:58 pm
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
135735 posts
Posted on 8/27/18 at 7:06 pm to
quote:

We are asking how south Africa COULD implement such a redistribution, assuming that’s decision had been made to do so.
Sort of like Goebbels speculating to Hitler how Nazis "COULD implement" a Final Solution "assuming the decision had been made to do so."
Posted by RTM4
Pflugerville
Member since Apr 2018
2296 posts
Posted on 8/27/18 at 7:27 pm to
Wow, an alternative fictional writer (whom I like) was highlighted in the OP and chaos ensues.



AggieHank are you okay baw, or bawette? You seem to have a touch of that SJW in you. Sure you aren't having an identity crisis and wanting to go to that TSIP school in Austin?

Just checking as a friend.
Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
44345 posts
Posted on 8/27/18 at 8:24 pm to
quote:

Sure you aren't having an identity crisis and wanting to go to that TSIP school in Austin?
Do you know any female named Hank? LoL

Spent three years of law school in Austin. Fun town, but would not want to live there as an adult!

As a Turtledove fan, how did I do emulating his style on the OP? (The potential parallels were pretty easy, but I had to think a bit to get rid of French Louisiana between the Cape and the Transvaal/Free State in the early 1800s, since there was no analogous territorry in South Africa)).
This post was edited on 8/27/18 at 8:46 pm
Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
44345 posts
Posted on 8/27/18 at 8:25 pm to
quote:

Sort of like Goebbels speculating to Hitler how Nazis "COULD implement" a Final Solution "assuming the decision had been made to do so."
You really don’t see the difference, do you?

Who ties your shoes for you in the morning?
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
135735 posts
Posted on 8/27/18 at 8:32 pm to
quote:

quote:

quote:

We are asking how south Africa COULD implement such a redistribution, assuming that’s decision had been made to do so.


Sort of like Goebbels speculating to Hitler how Nazis "COULD implement" a Final Solution "assuming the decision had been made to do so."



You really don’t see the difference, do you?
Not really. Nope.
quote:

Who ties your shoes for you in the morning?
I usually wear Crocks to avoid the stress
Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
44345 posts
Posted on 8/27/18 at 8:41 pm to
quote:

quote:

You really don’t see the difference (between a theoretical intellectual exercise and Goebbels advising Hitler), do you?

Not really. Nope.
This makes me sad for you.
Posted by RTM4
Pflugerville
Member since Apr 2018
2296 posts
Posted on 8/27/18 at 9:25 pm to
Well to be honest now days one cannot assume any gender.

Your story is good and I get the point except for the gold and diamonds in the Trans-Pecos region. Precious metals are rare in Texas in any quantity worth mentioning.

You might want to write a book. Have fun.
Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
44345 posts
Posted on 8/27/18 at 9:31 pm to
Well, they found both gold and diamonds in the Transvaal, so I had to have minerals in Transpecos to explain the conquest .... but remember that the hypothetical nation of Transpecos includes not just far west Texas but also New Mexico, Arizona and parts of northern Mexico. There is gold there, but no diamonds. If I write the book, I will need to exclude that part ... or change it to some other precious stone.
This post was edited on 8/27/18 at 9:44 pm
Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
44345 posts
Posted on 8/27/18 at 10:38 pm to
quote:

There are so few white farmers left that a white farmer has a 3.2X higher chance of being murdered than anyone else in a murder country.
Link?

My research says that farm murders in South Africa are at their lowest rate in 20 years.
This post was edited on 8/28/18 at 5:03 am
Posted by Roaad
White Privilege Broker
Member since Aug 2006
82187 posts
Posted on 8/27/18 at 11:11 pm to
quote:

The history can be summed up even more as
-Europeans settle a sparsely inhabited part of south Africa
-Begin spreading out into new territory and encounter Bantu(who had migrated south from Central Africa)
-Some attempt to buy land from Zulu(bantu), get double crossed and slaughtered
-Whites then just wage war to take land
-Create first world society
-Over 300 years blacks migrate in for opportunity, become majority
-Whites, not trusting blacks, start apartheid(Jim Crow type laws) after 1948
-UN applies pressure on South African whites to cede power
-Blacks now run show and validate all the reasons whites didnt trust them in the first place
clutch
Posted by Roaad
White Privilege Broker
Member since Aug 2006
82187 posts
Posted on 8/27/18 at 11:17 pm to
Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
44345 posts
Posted on 8/28/18 at 7:08 am to


I found this graphic interesting. It maps all of the farm murders for the last year on which data is available.

Looking at this map, I find myself asking whether this is a South African problem or a Gauteng Province problem. Gauteng is the smallest province, but it is home to the greatest number of these crimes. If we include the attacks within an hour’s drive from Gauteng, we find more than 60% of the attacks.

What do we know about Gauteng? It is the most populous province, despite being the smallest in size. It is also the most urban province, including both Pretoria and J’burg.

One might be tempted to say that this is a Bantu problem, Given that it is essentially non-existent in the West. That would possibly explain Western Cape and Northern Cape, where mixed-race Coloureds are the plurality (near-majority, actually). However, that would overlook Eastern Cape, where the plutality is Xhosa (Bantu) and where these crimes are also nearly non-existent.

Is it possible that most of these crimes can be attributed to urban thugs seeking secluded targets of opportunity in the nearby countryside?
This post was edited on 8/28/18 at 7:29 am
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