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A Public Service Announcement Concerning The Recent Board Debate Over Our “Ally” Israel:

Posted on 3/13/25 at 9:03 am
Posted by Toomer Deplorable
Team Bitter Clinger
Member since May 2020
24857 posts
Posted on 3/13/25 at 9:03 am


This post was edited on 3/13/25 at 9:04 am
Posted by Bunk Moreland
Member since Dec 2010
68387 posts
Posted on 3/13/25 at 9:04 am to
Careful, mate, I got a warning for this type of thing last week.
Posted by Jimbeaux
Member since Sep 2003
21757 posts
Posted on 3/13/25 at 9:16 am to
“Criticizing” is a very broad category.

What do you mean by “the state of Israel has to go”?

Why are you singling out the state of Israel?

There are very many nation states that were created by mandate after the world wars, with territory lines drawn and redrawn, some completely created out of whole cloth, and many with subsequent sectarian violence, some that have been subdivided, and some that no longer exist.

Why is there a specific word, “zionism”, (used as a pejorative) to describe Israeli desire to have their own homeland in their historical geographic area, but not similar words for all the other similarly situated peoples?
Posted by OBReb6
Memphissippi
Member since Jul 2010
41553 posts
Posted on 3/13/25 at 9:17 am to
quote:

Careful, mate, I got a warning for this type of thing last week.


Same.
Posted by SallysHuman
Lady Palmetto Bug
Member since Jan 2025
21724 posts
Posted on 3/13/25 at 9:18 am to
quote:

Why is there a specific word, “zionism”, (used as a pejorative) to describe Israeli desire to have their own homeland in their historical geographic area, but not similar words for all the other similarly situated peoples?


Never thought of it this way, good question!
Posted by SammyTiger
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Feb 2009
79428 posts
Posted on 3/13/25 at 9:19 am to
you can absolutely criticize the israeli government.

But a lot anti-israel arguments jump the line to antisemitism extremely fast.

Posted by TBoy
Kalamazoo
Member since Dec 2007
28576 posts
Posted on 3/13/25 at 9:21 am to
Perhaps OP is just trying to say that reasonable people can disagree with Israel's tactics in the war in Gaza. That is certainly a true statement. Reasonable people can disagree with Trump's governance, and Biden's governance. Reasonable people can discuss any number of things.

If we only had some reasonable people around here.
Posted by Toomer Deplorable
Team Bitter Clinger
Member since May 2020
24857 posts
Posted on 3/13/25 at 9:29 am to
quote:

Careful, mate, I got a warning for this type of thing last week.


I received such a warning too and this is why I believe this is a much needed discussion.

With that in mind, I want to state for the record that I have been an active participant in some form of online political forums since the old dial-up days and I genuinely believe this forum is one of the best freewheeling political discussion forums on the intratubes.

I further am thankful to be a small part of this community and I certainly I do not seek to run afoul of TOS.

I will thus make every effort to respect the discretionary judgment of the moderators who Chicken has appointed to monitor this site as I am quite sure that is a thankless task.

So I hope this topic is thus received in the spirit of open and frank discussion in which it is intended.

Posted by Toomer Deplorable
Team Bitter Clinger
Member since May 2020
24857 posts
Posted on 3/13/25 at 9:35 am to
quote:

you can absolutely criticize the israeli government.

But a lot anti-israel arguments jump the line to antisemitism extremely fast.



I certainly do not disagree and I thus again want to reiterate that I sympathize with the moderators who must navigate such land-mines that inevitably arise in these discussions.
This post was edited on 3/13/25 at 9:37 am
Posted by idlewatcher
Planet Arium
Member since Jan 2012
96969 posts
Posted on 3/13/25 at 9:36 am to
quote:

I received such a warning too


Interesting.

So mods are showing their bias?
Posted by Ag Zwin
Member since Mar 2016
26292 posts
Posted on 3/13/25 at 9:40 am to
quote:

What do you mean by “the state of Israel has to go”?

Why are you singling out the state of Israel?

At first, I thought we’re giving him the Cathy Newman treatment and illustrating the leap that the OP is raising.

Then, I finally saw the little sign in the pic.

My guess is that the meme’s message drowned out that detail. I agree with the meme, but not the sign.
Posted by MemphisGuy
Germantown, TN
Member since Nov 2023
14671 posts
Posted on 3/13/25 at 9:41 am to
quote:

A Public Service Announcement Concerning The Recent Board Debate Over Our “Ally” Israel:


Any particular reason you put ally in quotes? Are you saying they are NOT our ally? Because that seems to be exactly what you are saying by putting it in quotes. And if that IS what you are saying, who would you prefer our ally in the Middle East to be?
Posted by Toomer Deplorable
Team Bitter Clinger
Member since May 2020
24857 posts
Posted on 3/13/25 at 9:45 am to
quote:

There are very many nation states that were created by mandate after the world wars, with territory lines drawn and redrawn, some completely created out of whole cloth, and many with subsequent sectarian violence, some that have been subdivided, and some that no longer exist.



This historical reality is an under discussed aspect of the fraught political landscape of the modern Middle East and should be at the forefront of any knowledgeable discussion on the matter.
Posted by Toomer Deplorable
Team Bitter Clinger
Member since May 2020
24857 posts
Posted on 3/13/25 at 9:51 am to
quote:

And if that IS what you are saying, who would you prefer our ally in the Middle East to be?


Posted by Toomer Deplorable
Team Bitter Clinger
Member since May 2020
24857 posts
Posted on 3/13/25 at 10:01 am to
quote:

I agree with the meme, but not the sign.


Me too.

The whole point of the meme is to point out that criticism of Israel is not ipso-facto antisemitic.

Yet for clarification, I want to emphasize that I believe Israel has the right to exist and in no way do I mean to endorse the view that Israel should be eradicated.

This post was edited on 3/13/25 at 10:05 am
Posted by wdhalgren
Member since May 2013
5293 posts
Posted on 3/13/25 at 10:19 am to
quote:

reasonable people can disagree.....If we only had some reasonable people around here.


Reason, like beauty, hate, even truth, often lies in the eyes of the beholder. But if it's reasonable disagreement you want, maybe start it off with reasonable responses. You were doing ok until the last sentence. Derisive laughter is a signal you're trying to turn the thread into an insult contest, not a debate. If you want to claim the high ground, you have to get there.
This post was edited on 3/13/25 at 10:30 am
Posted by FightinTigersDammit
Louisiana North
Member since Mar 2006
46425 posts
Posted on 3/13/25 at 10:24 am to
We are Israel's best friend.
They are not always our best friend.
Posted by RobbBobb
Member since Feb 2007
34264 posts
Posted on 3/13/25 at 10:35 am to
uh, why do you hate Jesus?

The religious Jews (Judaism) dont believe that the state of Israel (Zionists) can exist, until the Messiah has returned. So the ultra-Jew in your photo is denigrating Jesus as the Messiah, and wanting the state of Israel disbanded. Because it is a mockery of the "one true religion"

So criticizing Israel in this context is anti-Christendom
Posted by Jimbeaux
Member since Sep 2003
21757 posts
Posted on 3/13/25 at 1:04 pm to
quote:

uh, why do you hate Jesus? The religious Jews (Judaism) dont believe that the state of Israel (Zionists) can exist, until the Messiah has returned. So the ultra-Jew in your photo is denigrating Jesus as the Messiah, and wanting the state of Israel disbanded. Because it is a mockery of the "one true religion" So criticizing Israel in this context is anti-Christendom


That’s a pretty niche and select group. I would wager that the vast majority of those who want the destruction of the state of Israel aren’t a part of that group.

And for the record, I am aware that there are vile anti-Christian Jewish zealots and that a large group of them reside in Israel and Jerusalem.

Especially during periods of sectarian violence, the anti-Christian views and actions get quite excessive towards Christian pilgrims to the Holy Land.
Posted by Toomer Deplorable
Team Bitter Clinger
Member since May 2020
24857 posts
Posted on 3/13/25 at 3:07 pm to
quote:

uh, why do you hate Jesus?



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