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re: A Call to Christian Unity
Posted on 9/1/25 at 12:53 pm to Narax
Posted on 9/1/25 at 12:53 pm to Narax
Great post and I fully agree. That Eucharist thread was a total shite show anyone who thinks they have the one and only way to do it is a moron and is missing the whole point (that goes for both Protestants and Catholics).
0
Posted on 9/1/25 at 12:54 pm to Narax
I am not the person that decides you is gifted salvation. I know the Holy Spirit dwells in the Orthodox Church but I don’t know where the Holy Spirit is not. It is possible that the Holy Spirit dwells in churches where dispensationalism is taught.
However, I know the evil one thrives off of deception and making people believe things that are incorrect. So in my opinion, it is wisest to stay away from interpretations of the Bible that popped up randomly after 1800 years of Christian theology when the early church fathers definitely did not interpret scripture that way.
However, I know the evil one thrives off of deception and making people believe things that are incorrect. So in my opinion, it is wisest to stay away from interpretations of the Bible that popped up randomly after 1800 years of Christian theology when the early church fathers definitely did not interpret scripture that way.
Posted on 9/1/25 at 12:55 pm to Uga Alum
The original Nicene creed said that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father. The Catholics later changed it to “proceeds from the Father and Son.”
True but (this was done to fight Arianism)
Also..
• Acacian Schism (484–519): The East broke with Rome over the Henotikon but returned by accepting Chalcedon and recognizing papal authority.
• Photian Schism (863–880): The East rejected papal overreach, but reunion came when they acknowledged papal authority while Rome agreed not to impose the Filioque.
• Great Schism (1054): Neither side would yield on papal supremacy or the Filioque, making the split permanent.
So we see that on the first two splits the East rejoined Rome by accepting the authority of the pope.
So the East vacillates back and fourth but Rome has remained the same.
True but (this was done to fight Arianism)
Also..
• Acacian Schism (484–519): The East broke with Rome over the Henotikon but returned by accepting Chalcedon and recognizing papal authority.
• Photian Schism (863–880): The East rejected papal overreach, but reunion came when they acknowledged papal authority while Rome agreed not to impose the Filioque.
• Great Schism (1054): Neither side would yield on papal supremacy or the Filioque, making the split permanent.
So we see that on the first two splits the East rejoined Rome by accepting the authority of the pope.
So the East vacillates back and fourth but Rome has remained the same.
Posted on 9/1/25 at 12:56 pm to StrongOffer
I explained it in my prior post. Each person of the Holy Trinity possesses unique characteristics but is fully and equally God. If the Father and the Son possess the same characteristics that the Holy Spirit does not (being that the Holy Spirit proceeds from them both), that makes the Holy Spirit subservient.
Posted on 9/1/25 at 12:56 pm to Guntoter1
quote:
The original Nicene creed said that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father. The Catholics later changed it to “proceeds from the Father and Son.”
quote:
So the East vacillates back and fourth but Rome has remained the same.
This post was edited on 9/1/25 at 12:58 pm
Posted on 9/1/25 at 1:01 pm to Uga Alum
Gotcha. Appreciate the clarification. I still think the word “proceeds” doesn’t change. Proceeds means to “continue a course of action or process”. After Jesus’ ascension, the Holy Spirit continues his mission and guides the Apostles. This doesn’t mean the Holy Spirit is subservient to the Son. The Catholic Church certainly doesn’t teach that the Holy Spirit is lower or subservient to the Father or Son.
Posted on 9/1/25 at 1:01 pm to SallysHuman
Pretty sure this is the relevant bit that corresponds to your second quote.
quote:
Acacian Schism (484–519): The East broke with Rome over the Henotikon but returned by accepting Chalcedon and recognizing papal authority.
• Photian Schism (863–880): The East rejected papal overreach, but reunion came when they acknowledged papal authority while Rome agreed not to impose the Filioque.
• Great Schism (1054): Neither side would yield on papal supremacy or the Filioque, making the split permanent.
Posted on 9/1/25 at 1:03 pm to SallysHuman
Rome has remained the same on the authority of the pope, who therefore has the power to decide on the filoique
Posted on 9/1/25 at 1:05 pm to StrongOffer
It’s not about the definition of “proceeds from” though. I want to make that clear.
The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are fully and equally God. Yet they all have traits that they others do not. If two of the three have the same traits, then the third person that doesn’t possess those traits is subservient.
The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are fully and equally God. Yet they all have traits that they others do not. If two of the three have the same traits, then the third person that doesn’t possess those traits is subservient.
Posted on 9/1/25 at 1:09 pm to GumboPot
quote:
Let's not beat around the bush. What's causing all this consternation is what happening in Gaza. On one side you have a faction that wants to kill them all. On the other side you have a faction that wants to kill them all.
And it probably won’t end until the last one is dead, been going on for centuries, very sad.
Posted on 9/1/25 at 1:11 pm to GumboPot
quote:
Let's not beat around the bush. What's causing all this consternation is what happening in Gaza.
No, you are dead wrong.
While you may be paying attention only to the amount of fighting on the Gaza front, Christian unity is constantly under stress from Catholic vs Orthodox and both of them vs Protestants on this site.
The Church is far far more important than any political conflict going on.
Matthew 10:28
quote:
And fear not them that kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul; but rather fear Him that is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Posted on 9/1/25 at 1:18 pm to Uga Alum
quote:
I am not the person that decides you is gifted salvation. I know the Holy Spirit dwells in the Orthodox Church but I don’t know where the Holy Spirit is not. It is possible that the Holy Spirit dwells in churches where dispensationalism is taught.
However, I know the evil one thrives off of deception and making people believe things that are incorrect. So in my opinion, it is wisest to stay away from interpretations of the Bible that popped up randomly after 1800 years of Christian theology when the early church fathers definitely did not interpret scripture that way.
I think that is a perfectly valid concern to be brought to other Christians.
I myself while being a nondenominational protestant (who abides by the first seven ecumenical councils) am quite wary that there are fundamental weaknesses in protestant structures where they can drift from theoretical differences on the unclear aspects to extreme heresy with just a board vote.
Posted on 9/1/25 at 1:19 pm to Narax
I'm in
Posted on 9/1/25 at 1:24 pm to Uga Alum
It doesn’t say they have the same trait. Using the same logic, the original was saying the Father is above the Son and HS and the Son and Holy Spirit are subservient to the Father. It’s saying there’s a continuation with the Holy Spirit.
Posted on 9/1/25 at 1:31 pm to StrongOffer
I am still not explaining this correctly. I can tell based on your responses.
Let me try again.
The reason that each person of the Holy Trinity is not dominant over or subservient to the other is because they each possess unique characteristics that the others do not.
If two members of the Holy Trinity possess the same characteristic that the third member does not, then the third member is subservient to the other two.
The Catholics believe that the Father and the Son have the same trait in that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son. Therefore, the Holy Spirit would be subservient.
Let me try again.
The reason that each person of the Holy Trinity is not dominant over or subservient to the other is because they each possess unique characteristics that the others do not.
If two members of the Holy Trinity possess the same characteristic that the third member does not, then the third member is subservient to the other two.
The Catholics believe that the Father and the Son have the same trait in that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son. Therefore, the Holy Spirit would be subservient.
This post was edited on 9/1/25 at 1:33 pm
Posted on 9/1/25 at 1:34 pm to Narax
O my Jesus forgive us our sins and save us from the fires of hell. lead all souls to Heaven, especially those in most need of thy mercy. Amen.
This post was edited on 9/1/25 at 1:38 pm
Posted on 9/1/25 at 1:34 pm to Uga Alum
quote:With all due respect, Catholics 100% do not believe that. Misrepresenting the teachings of the Catholic Church isn’t a failure of the Church. It’s a failure of the person misrepresenting the position. I see it all the time and it bothers me that non-Catholics are so adamant of misrepresenting our beliefs…like this, or we worship Mary, or we worship false idols/statues, or we think all non-Catholic Christians are going to hell…
The Catholics believe that the Father and the Son have the same trait in that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son. Therefore, the Holy Spirit would be subservient.
Posted on 9/1/25 at 1:37 pm to StrongOffer
But if you believe that the Holy Spirit proceeds from both the Father and the Son, you believe that the Holy Spirit is subservient without knowing or realizing it. For all of the reasons that I mentioned.
This post was edited on 9/1/25 at 1:38 pm
Posted on 9/1/25 at 1:38 pm to Uga Alum
quote:
It’s not about the definition of “proceeds from” though. I want to make that clear.
The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are fully and equally God. Yet they all have traits that they others do not. If two of the three have the same traits, then the third person that doesn’t possess those traits is subservient.
But is not this part of the gift that is theology.
While I know no Catholic or Protestant who actually believes the Holy Spirit is subservient, it does drive us to reflect upon the very nature of God and the Trinity, which is beautiful.
Posted on 9/1/25 at 1:40 pm to Uga Alum
quote:Well no it doesn’t, you’re reading into something that isn’t there. Mentioning 2 and then mentioning a 3rd doesn’t come the the connotations you’re prescribing to it. It’s describing a process that started with the covenant with Abraham. Jesus proceeds the Father and the Holy Spirit proceeds Jesus.
But if you believe that the Holy Spirit proceeds from both the Father and the Son, you believe that the Holy Spirit is subservient without knowing it. For all of the reasons that I mentioned.
This post was edited on 9/1/25 at 1:41 pm
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