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Started By
Message
re: 55 years ago our "greatest ally" intentionally attacked a US ship and murdered 34Americans
Posted on 6/8/22 at 2:42 pm to Malik Agar
Posted on 6/8/22 at 2:42 pm to Malik Agar
No it was not an intentionally attack.
Really look into the facts, where was the Egyptian naval vessels just hours before the attack.
Where was the USS Liberty?
The key factor in the attack is the change in shift at the war room and the marker for the USS Liberty being removed from the board.
It is the patrol boat that confirmed it was a US ship, planes doing near 600 mph had little hope to identify the USS Liberty.
You have to know all about the fog of war and identify ships, you're not looking for a very small flag. The 3 Egyptian ships in the area just hours before, one has a similar look and could easily be mistaken by pilots flying that fast.
If you read all the ID mistakes from WWII on planes only doing 150-450mph, you would see how easy it is to mistake a target.
Really look into the facts, where was the Egyptian naval vessels just hours before the attack.
Where was the USS Liberty?
The key factor in the attack is the change in shift at the war room and the marker for the USS Liberty being removed from the board.
It is the patrol boat that confirmed it was a US ship, planes doing near 600 mph had little hope to identify the USS Liberty.
You have to know all about the fog of war and identify ships, you're not looking for a very small flag. The 3 Egyptian ships in the area just hours before, one has a similar look and could easily be mistaken by pilots flying that fast.
If you read all the ID mistakes from WWII on planes only doing 150-450mph, you would see how easy it is to mistake a target.
This post was edited on 6/8/22 at 2:44 pm
2
Posted on 6/8/22 at 2:45 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:
You’re being both sleazy and disingenuous.
And here I thought I was being fair and honest about both sides. I guess we should just agree to disagree, and let it pass. You could be right about everything you said, but I doubt it.
Posted on 6/8/22 at 2:45 pm to troyt37
You know, it's possible it was a clusterfrick by the Navy AND evil intentions by the Israelis. They're not mutually exclusive concepts.
Posted on 6/8/22 at 2:47 pm to Indefatigable
quote:
You’re the first person to bring religion into it. My opinion on the events would be no different if this had been done by any other nation. That Israel happens to be a Jewish ethno state is totally irrelevant to this event.
I can't imagine feeling any differently about it myself, if the British had done it.
Posted on 6/8/22 at 2:51 pm to Malik Agar
It would have been a very nice gesture for Israel to pay the families of the casualties some monetary restitution.
Posted on 6/8/22 at 2:51 pm to tigger1
quote:
You have to know all about the fog of war and identify ships, you're not looking for a very small flag
Liberty hoisted an enormous US flag after being strafed by aircraft, and before being torpedoed. Her initial flag on the mast was downed in the initial attack.
quote:There is no way you actually believe that
planes doing near 600 mph had little hope to identify the USS Liberty.
Liberty also looked nothing like the destroyer the Israelis tried to pretend they thought she was.
This post was edited on 6/8/22 at 2:55 pm
Posted on 6/8/22 at 2:54 pm to Zarkinletch416
quote:
Those who fight Israel, fight God. My suggestion. Don't taunt God.
Imagine blindly giving your allegiance to an entity that was created in 1948 merely because it shares the same name with another entity from the old testament.
Posted on 6/8/22 at 2:59 pm to Malik Agar
If it’s Israel, I’ll allow it. Face gods wrath if you go against Israel.
Posted on 6/8/22 at 2:59 pm to SoFla Tideroller
quote:
You know, it's possible it was a clusterfrick by the Navy AND evil intentions by the Israelis. They're not mutually exclusive concepts.
Agreed. Never said anything to the contrary. I just think the 3AM message telling Liberty to GTFO is a pretty obvious admission that it was not where the Navy wanted it, and the most obvious reason for that is the messages and communication from Israel.
Then you have the Liberty brass asking for an armed escort, and a Navy bigwig going bigshot, saying the Liberty is marked and in international waters, and we'll have fighters there in 10 minutes if you're attacked. Which tells me that the Liberty brass had a pretty good indication that they were sailing in some warm waters, if you will.
I just don't see how people can't fathom the likelihood that tragic mistakes were made on both sides.
Posted on 6/8/22 at 3:01 pm to Indefatigable
Indefatigable lol you have Kate's doing 150 mph attack the USS Uath thinking it was a US CV Dec 7
You do not ID a ship in a plane doing 600 mph by a flag, simply near impossible.
I can give 100 of miss ID's in WWII alone of destroyers being id as BB's, CL as BB's, Oil tankers as CVs etc the list is long from WWII and most of those miss ID's are from under 300 mph.
Miss ID of friend for foe is common too, when talking about planes attacking.
You do not ID a ship in a plane doing 600 mph by a flag, simply near impossible.
I can give 100 of miss ID's in WWII alone of destroyers being id as BB's, CL as BB's, Oil tankers as CVs etc the list is long from WWII and most of those miss ID's are from under 300 mph.
Miss ID of friend for foe is common too, when talking about planes attacking.
This post was edited on 6/8/22 at 3:02 pm
Posted on 6/8/22 at 3:03 pm to Champagne
quote:
It would have been a very nice gesture for Israel to pay the families of the casualties some monetary restitution.
\
quote:
Israel apologized for the attack, saying that the USS Liberty had been attacked in error after being mistaken for an Egyptian ship.[5] Both the Israeli and U.S. governments conducted inquiries and issued reports that concluded the attack was a mistake due to Israeli confusion about the ship's identity.[6] Others, including survivors of the attack, have rejected these conclusions and maintain that the attack was deliberate.[7][8]
In May 1968, the Israeli government paid US$3.32 million (equivalent to US$25.9 million in 2021) to the U.S. government in compensation for the families of the 34 men killed in the attack. In March 1969, Israel paid a further $3.57 million ($26.4 million in 2021) to the men who had been wounded. In December 1980, it agreed to pay $6 million ($19.7 million in 2021) as the final settlement for material damage to Liberty itself plus 13 years of interest.
Posted on 6/8/22 at 3:03 pm to troyt37
quote:
I just don't see how people can't fathom the likelihood that tragic mistakes were made on both sides.
One strafing run = mistake
Second strafing run = ok, still pretty tight timeframe. still possible mistake
Aircraft being called off because of no return fire, because they noted latin alphabet markings on the ship, because they noticed that the ship did not seem capable of the speed at which a warship travels, and the possibility that it could be western = ok. they realize they may have made a mistake.
An hour later, Torpedo boats approach and directly order the Liberty to identify itself. It does so. Torpedo boats fire five torpedoes anyway = no longer reasonably considered a mistake.
This post was edited on 6/8/22 at 3:06 pm
Posted on 6/8/22 at 3:04 pm to Malik Agar
YES! Israel is the greatest military ally of the United States, buster!
The attack was an accident. Beware of your hatred towards Israel. Mistake or not, God Almighty is on her side!
The attack was an accident. Beware of your hatred towards Israel. Mistake or not, God Almighty is on her side!
Posted on 6/8/22 at 3:07 pm to Zarkinletch416
quote:
Those who fight Israel, fight God. My suggestion. Don't taunt God.
You're completely fricked in the head. Jesus hates israel and so do I.
Posted on 6/8/22 at 3:08 pm to MadQfrog
quote:
MadQfrog
quote:
If it’s Israel, I’ll allow it. Face gods wrath if you go against Israel.
You're a servant of Satan.
Posted on 6/8/22 at 3:12 pm to Indefatigable
quote:
One strafing run = mistake
Second strafing run = ok, still pretty tight timeframe. still possible mistake
Aircraft being called off because of no return fire, because they noted latin alphabet markings on the ship, because they noticed that the ship did not seem capable of the speed at which a warship travels, and the possibility that it could be western = ok. they realize they may have made a mistake.
An hour later, Torpedo boats approach and directly order the Liberty to identify itself. It does so. Torpedo boats fire five torpedoes anyway = no longer reasonably considered a mistake.
Yeah, that's jacked up. I'll have to do some more reading on that.
Posted on 6/8/22 at 3:31 pm to Indefatigable
If you take the time to read it all, the confusion on both sides is palpable. i tried to copy and paste, but it is going over the character limit. Read the Air and Sea Attacks portion. LINK
Posted on 6/8/22 at 3:58 pm to troyt37
quote:
I just think the 3AM message telling Liberty to GTFO is a pretty obvious admission that it was not where the Navy wanted it, and the most obvious reason for that is the messages and communication from Israel.
This is what kills your whole premise. If there were messages from the Israelis prior, then they acknowledge that they were aware US Navy assets were in the area. You can't use the "Whoopsies! We didn't know that was you." excuse when prior to that you send the "Y'all need to GTFO of there" message.
Posted on 6/8/22 at 4:08 pm to SoFla Tideroller
quote:
This is what kills your whole premise. If there were messages from the Israelis prior, then they acknowledge that they were aware US Navy assets were in the area.
That's not the way it reads. It reads that Israel warned that they would be attacking unidentified vessels, and the distance they wanted kept from the coasts. The US claims to never have received these warnings. But then a 3AM message from the Navy to the Liberty saying get 100 miles back was sent, but never received because of SNAFU.
The question is, if the warnings from Israel were never received, then why did the Navy tell the Liberty to get back 100 miles in the first place?
This post was edited on 6/8/22 at 4:19 pm
Posted on 6/8/22 at 4:12 pm to MadQfrog
quote:
If it’s Israel, I’ll allow it. Face gods wrath if you go against Israel.
We must protect the Jews so Jesus will come back and send them to Hell for not believing in him - Zionists like MadQfag
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