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Started By
Message
re: 54 years ago today, JFK was murdered. RIP Mr. President.
Posted on 11/22/17 at 10:00 am to DelU249
Posted on 11/22/17 at 10:00 am to DelU249
quote:
No. I also wouldn’t call being a gun for hire a conspiracy in the sense we discuss conspiracies. If anything i think he could’ve been a “what the hell” Hail Mary for the mafia, Cubans or even Soviets.
okay but even then he had to be placed at the book depository and Ruth Payne would have had to be involved in that
2
Posted on 11/22/17 at 10:03 am to Parmen
quote:
54 years ago today, JFK was murdered. RIP Mr. President
quote:
The human costs of the long conflict were harsh for all involved. Not until 1995 did Vietnamrelease its official estimate of war dead: as many as 2 million civilians on both sides and some 1.1 million North Vietnamese and Viet Cong fighters. The U.S. military has estimated that between 200,000 and 250,000 South Vietnamese soldiers died in the war. In 1982 the Vietnam Veterans Memorial was dedicated in Washington, D.C., inscribed with the names of 57,939 members of U.S. armed forces who had died or were missing as a result of the war. Over the following years, additions to the list have brought the total past 58,200. (At least 100 names on the memorial are those of servicemen who were actually Canadian citizens.) Among other countries that fought for South Vietnam on a smaller scale, South Korea suffered more than 4,000 dead, Thailand about 350, Australiamore than 500, and New Zealand some three dozen.
He could have died face down in a rice paddy.
Posted on 11/22/17 at 10:03 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:jack ruby is pretty far down the list of weird things about the whole thing. he could've been the angry guy who shot Oswald just as everyone says and that doesn't mean anything to me because what catches my attention are events before not after the assassination.
#2 You also have to believe that Jack Ruby, running late as it is, decided to risk missing Oswald all together when he stopped off at Western Union to wire one of his employee $25 to pay her rent like 3 minutes before he shot Oswald. You'd also have to believe that Oswald himself was involved in his own end as the only reason he hadn't been transported long before Ruby arrived at the police station was because he asked for a change of clothes.
ruby's mob ties are overstated and were with the outfit in Chicago. moreover, if the Cubans spoke with Oswald and said, kill JFK and we'll let you in...what do you have to lose? and they certainly wouldn't have any contact with the mafia. in fact, the mafia lost a lot of money because of castro.
I don't think every strange thing needs to fit together. some things are just strange and coincidental while others may not be.
but again, my position is that I flat out don't know. actually don't really care. Oswald was the killer, the only shooter. I'd rather know who the zodiac killer was than to have every answer about the kennedy assassination.
Posted on 11/22/17 at 10:04 am to DelU249
He was a PIG.....deserved what he got...You people are ignorant.
Posted on 11/22/17 at 10:11 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:no. in fact, guns for hire usually take care of the details themselves. it's also a matter of "when" it was decided. his job at the school book depository may have been independent of a desire to kill kennedy...and when did he decide to kill him.
okay but even then he had to be placed at the book depository and Ruth Payne would have had to be involved in that
i think making every person and action fit together is illogical. things happen independently of one another. either you think like that or you're operating under the belief i have a conspiracy minded view of things which i do not. i just don't know and i still lean lone wolf but i think it's entirely plausible that amongst this pile of coincidental circumstances is something that is not coincidental
i think it's plausible he thought clipping kennedy would be something he could use to get into cuba and be some kind of hero of the people.
but i don't think too much about it because all that matters is who did it...Oswald.
Posted on 11/22/17 at 10:21 am to DelU249
quote:
ctually don't really care. Oswald was the killer, the only shooter. I'd rather know who the zodiac killer was than to have every answer about the kennedy assassination.
Ask yourself how different this country would be today had Kennedy not been assasinated. For starters, our involvement in Vietnam would have been radically less than what Johnson escalated it into. Kennedy would have never been able to pass social program and civil rights legislation on Johnson's scale. Kennedy alive was not nearly as popular as Kennedy dead. In fact his trip to Dallas was an early campaign trip to try and shore up southern support for 64. Johnson used Kennedy as a martyr in order to get his Great Society programs enacted. I'm not saying that the massive nanny state we live in wouldn't exist, but it would not be as massive as it is.
Regardless of who was responsible, Kennedy's assination drastically altered the course of American history.
This post was edited on 11/22/17 at 10:22 am
Posted on 11/22/17 at 10:23 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
Oswald acted alone
Yes, he did.
Posted on 11/22/17 at 10:28 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
okay but even then he had to be placed at the book depository and Ruth Payne would have had to be involved in that
That's correct. In fact, it can be argued that Oswald's boss at the book depository, Roy Truly, would have had to have been involved also since he assigned Oswald to the sixth floor of the depository. It may be easier to ask CT'ers who WASN'T involved. That would likely be a shorter list.
Posted on 11/22/17 at 10:31 am to DelU249
quote:100% in this camp.
He was absolutely the lone shooter. There is no magic bullet. He fired the shot from the Texas school book depository Acted alone? I’m 50/50...lived in Soviet Union, contact with the Cuban embassy, some eyebrow raising contacts in New Orleans...gun to my head? He acted alone. But for a destitute kid from New Orleans, the years leading up to the assassination are more than suspicious
ETA: Also, RIP Mr. president.
This post was edited on 11/22/17 at 10:32 am
Posted on 11/22/17 at 10:33 am to TigersFan64
quote:as a shooter, it's a matter of indisputable fact
Yes, he did.
as much as people on both sides of the discussion have trouble admitting it, we'll never know if Oswald was an unwitting participant in someone else's plot to kill kennedy, a conspirator himself or if he acted alone
I still however so slightly lean acted alone, but the circumstances before the assassination are eyebrow raising and my just be coincidental, and they may not be.
a poor kid from new Orleans with connections direct and indirect (that we know of) to the soviet union, contact with the Cuban embassy, the mafia under tabs by the FBI. and the fbi part is the most logical and easily explainable part of the whole thing
but his brother is very convincing in describing a personality that he demonstrated time and time again (even taking a shot at someone else before kennedy) and push comes to shove...I go lone wolf.
but let's say it was the mafia, the Cubans, the soviets...does that have any large scale impact on the world in 2017. not to me. I certainly don't think it was the government and I have a pretty jaded view of the federal government, CIA, FBI, etc.
Posted on 11/22/17 at 10:52 am to HaveMercy
quote:
Ask yourself how different this country would be today had Kennedy not been assasinated
you alter time even over the smallest thing and the world could look radically different. the more time that passes the more consequential the action the greater the likelihood.
quote:kennedy escalated it above what Eisenhower did...and the dynamics changed from allied support of a French colony to what it was...domino theory was the driving force of our foreign policy (and not without merit either)...our involvement in Vietnam would have escalated regardless IMO; however let's say one soldier who should have died doesn't and he or his child would become president, killed a president, sold nukes to an adversary, blown up the world trade center in 1982 rather than 2001...let's say someone who is alive now wouldn't be...like john McCain...that could alter the outcome of an election...or electionS
For starters, our involvement in Vietnam would have been radically less than what Johnson escalated it into
but kennedy wasn't an idealist, he was another corrupt politician, the son of a criminal...not some idealistic crusader. Vietnam was happening with or without him. which is why I dismiss it as a motive for a cabal within the federal government to have him killed.
Posted on 11/22/17 at 10:54 am to TX Tiger
quote:
closest we've come in American history to ending the Federal Reserve.
Which is why
quote:
JFK was murdered
Posted on 11/22/17 at 10:55 am to Parmen
As much as I hated Kennedy, isn’t it mind boggling that in today’s radical leftist Democrat party that he would be considered a Republican.
This post was edited on 11/22/17 at 10:59 am
Posted on 11/22/17 at 10:56 am to TX Tiger
He wasn’t the average democrat then.. Woodrow Wilson set up the federal reserve and JFK wanted to end it?
This post was edited on 11/22/17 at 10:57 am
Posted on 11/22/17 at 11:01 am to TigersFan64
you're operating under the assumption his job at the texas school book depository would have to be a deliberate action with the intent of killing the president as the sole motivation
that's not the only place from which he could kill kennedy...and he wouldn't necessarily need to kill him in dallas. sometimes things work out. just before the assassination he traveled to mexico seeking entrance into cuba. it's not like he was limited to the sandbox in dallas.
i'm not suggesting any grand or complicated conspiracy, but rather that's the conspiracy you're trying to debunk.
the only thing we know is that he shot kennedy, he alone shot kennedy, where he fired the shots and everything proceeding the murder. both conspiracy minded people and people intent on debunking conspiracies both seem to dismiss that. we do not know nor will we ever know why Oswald killed kennedy. we suspect we know (lone wolf seeking fame)and we have good reason to suspect that, but it's not a fact...not even close.
he may have been a lone wolf but killed kennedy for reasons other than fame and notoriety. he may have killed him thinking it would get him into cuba where he'd be a national hero. funny enough, he in many ways fits the current model of a mass shooter.
that's not the only place from which he could kill kennedy...and he wouldn't necessarily need to kill him in dallas. sometimes things work out. just before the assassination he traveled to mexico seeking entrance into cuba. it's not like he was limited to the sandbox in dallas.
i'm not suggesting any grand or complicated conspiracy, but rather that's the conspiracy you're trying to debunk.
the only thing we know is that he shot kennedy, he alone shot kennedy, where he fired the shots and everything proceeding the murder. both conspiracy minded people and people intent on debunking conspiracies both seem to dismiss that. we do not know nor will we ever know why Oswald killed kennedy. we suspect we know (lone wolf seeking fame)and we have good reason to suspect that, but it's not a fact...not even close.
he may have been a lone wolf but killed kennedy for reasons other than fame and notoriety. he may have killed him thinking it would get him into cuba where he'd be a national hero. funny enough, he in many ways fits the current model of a mass shooter.
Posted on 11/22/17 at 11:03 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
Oswald acted alone
Most likely fired the bullets that would kill the president. Was part of a conspiracy to kill the president.
Posted on 11/22/17 at 11:04 am to DelU249
quote:
but his brother is very convincing in describing a personality that he demonstrated time and time again (even taking a shot at someone else before kennedy) and push comes to shove...I go lone wolf.
Lee Oswald had mental problems since he was in high school, and he was seeing a therapist while they lived in New York. Robert Oswald has stated that their mother, Marguerite, had a lot to do with Lee's personality and social difficulties. Apparently, Marguerite was a very self-centered and difficult person to be around. Both brothers joined the military to get away from her.
The person you are referencing above whom Oswald tried to assassinate before JFK is retired rightwing general Edwin Walker. The Warren Commission concluded that Oswald was the one who tried to kill him, which was supported by contemporary testimony of Marina Oswald. Marina said that Oswald was away during that time with his rifle, with which he also had practiced extensively.
Posted on 11/22/17 at 11:04 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
#1 If you believe in a conspiracy then you believe that Ruth Payne was involved. She had to be since she was Oswald's connection to get a job at the Book Depository. You also must believe that Roy Truly, the man who hired Oswald there, was involved. In 54 years there has never been any evidence that either has had any connections to the FBI, CIA, mafia, or any other group conspiracy theorists point the finger at.
#2 You also have to believe that Jack Ruby, running late as it is, decided to risk missing Oswald all together when he stopped off at Western Union to wire one of his employee $25 to pay her rent like 3 minutes before he shot Oswald. You'd also have to believe that Oswald himself was involved in his own end as the only reason he hadn't been transported long before Ruby arrived at the police station was because he asked for a change of clothes.
You needn't believe either of these things to think there was a conspiracy to kill the president.
Posted on 11/22/17 at 11:04 am to therick711
quote:
Was part of a conspiracy to kill the president
Proof?
Posted on 11/22/17 at 11:05 am to Parmen
quote:
Last good Democrat to sit behind the Resolute Desk
Roger that - JFK would be drummed out of the DEM party today with the MSM berating his arse every day.
I voted for Nixon in that election, but came to respect JFK tremendously. I didn't know if he diddled any of his groupies in the Oval Office or not, but I would not have liked it if he sleazed up that 'sacred' place.
He got off to a bad start with the Bay of Pigs and it took his courage in the Cuba Missile Crisis to remove that stain from his foreign policy creds. However his Bay if Pigs debacle set up that whole situation to begin with.
Compared to any DEM since him - especially LBJ, Clinton, Obama. Carter was merely incompetent and impossibly naive. The others were bordering on treason - certainly corrupt at ever level.
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