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Started By
Message
re: 4 Billion could build a fence.
Posted on 7/10/14 at 9:59 am to The Third Leg
Posted on 7/10/14 at 9:59 am to The Third Leg
quote:
Since the illegal doesn't own the SSN, he cannot draw benefits on those monies that are kept by the government to fund out SSA. When we catch these people, we charge them with fraud, incarcerate them for six months, and then deport them.
No, we don't. When we "catch" those people, they're out of ICE holding within 4 hours and back on the job the same day with a different SSN. You probably believe in the Easter bunny, too.
Also, your SSA number seems very high. Assuming 20M illegal workers (on the books, which Id guess is way high), that would be an average SSA contribution of $4000 per employee. If that's $4000 unmatched, that's an average illegal salary of over $64k.
Additionally, the cost of illegals in ERs, Snap payments, etc. will put us well over that hypothetical $80B.
Finally, the $80B is going into a system that is going to be running at a deficit soon enough (and has some in the past) and will be worthless as a source of revenue.
1
Posted on 7/10/14 at 10:01 am to Jbird
quote:
Cameras
Drones
Sensors
Tethered balloons, oh wait we already have these.
Dude - they'll just go around the fence.
Posted on 7/10/14 at 10:02 am to Hill Tiger
We can send John Snow and some rabble from Flea Bottom to man the wall!
Posted on 7/10/14 at 10:03 am to bamarep
quote:
doesn't matter what the frick the cost is it's still cheaper than these people sucking the taxpayer tit for generations to come.
Most undocumented Mexicans are actually net contributors to the IRS. They pay withholding taxes but then can't claim the return.
If you ever notice extra money on your Social Security statement - an undocumented probably stole your SSN. Don't worry - they'll never actually see the benefit - YOU will!
This post was edited on 7/10/14 at 10:05 am
Posted on 7/10/14 at 10:08 am to SpidermanTUba
the thing about the fence is it won't do shite. they will just climb over it, or go under it.
Its just a gimmick.
You want to stop people crossing the borders? fine the shite out of companies that hire them. Get caught 3 times and the owner goes to jail for a year.
Provide some IT systems to help with fraud detection on paperwork. The reason they come here is there are jobs. the reason there are jobs is b.c business owners know they can hire them cheaply and they won't complain about conditions.
Kill the demand, and the supply will dry up.
Its just a gimmick.
You want to stop people crossing the borders? fine the shite out of companies that hire them. Get caught 3 times and the owner goes to jail for a year.
Provide some IT systems to help with fraud detection on paperwork. The reason they come here is there are jobs. the reason there are jobs is b.c business owners know they can hire them cheaply and they won't complain about conditions.
Kill the demand, and the supply will dry up.
Posted on 7/10/14 at 10:08 am to the808bass
Actually, when the IRS pops a no match, they send a letter to the employer. When ICE does a raid and they catch illegals working under someone else's (dead people) SSN, we charge them with fraud and prosecute them.
This started under Bush, it has proliferated since. Here is an essay from a raid on Postville, Iowa, which is a famous melting pot. This was a pilot raid for this new way of bolstering the prison complex, it is called fast-tracking, or it was. Postville raid
I'm not here acting like they pay for everything through no match socials, but that's free money for the government. If you've got a problem, it should start with the massive DHS budget that is derived from these ICE arrests which are marketed under the ruse of criminal alien arrests, for working.
No match number, citing SSA data LINK
Eta, you were correct, I transposed the numbers from wages to SS tax paid.
This started under Bush, it has proliferated since. Here is an essay from a raid on Postville, Iowa, which is a famous melting pot. This was a pilot raid for this new way of bolstering the prison complex, it is called fast-tracking, or it was. Postville raid
I'm not here acting like they pay for everything through no match socials, but that's free money for the government. If you've got a problem, it should start with the massive DHS budget that is derived from these ICE arrests which are marketed under the ruse of criminal alien arrests, for working.
No match number, citing SSA data LINK
Eta, you were correct, I transposed the numbers from wages to SS tax paid.
This post was edited on 7/10/14 at 10:15 am
Posted on 7/10/14 at 10:14 am to The Third Leg
quote:
Actually, when the IRS pops a no match, they send a letter to the employer. When ICE does a raid and they catch illegals working under someone else's (dead people) SSN, we charge them with fraud and prosecute them.
All very fascinating. I know a company that my company (at the time) sold was raided by ICE in SoCal and all the workers were back on the job the same day with new SSNs.
And I've got plenty of problems with FedGov. We don't solve any of those problems by pretending the real problem is next door to the problem.
Posted on 7/10/14 at 10:17 am to the808bass
So because that happens in a place, that is our protocol everywhere?
There are plenty more Postville stories and the deportation digits back this up.
Why don't you go ahead and open that Postville link, scroll down to the bottom of page thirteen, then look at the chart.
There are plenty more Postville stories and the deportation digits back this up.
Why don't you go ahead and open that Postville link, scroll down to the bottom of page thirteen, then look at the chart.
Posted on 7/10/14 at 10:26 am to the808bass
Read the last paragraph of page twelve and the start of page thirteen.
Again, he is citing government data.
Again, he is citing government data.
Posted on 7/10/14 at 10:29 am to cwill
You know nothing, cwill
Posted on 7/10/14 at 10:35 am to SpidermanTUba
quote:
Most undocumented Mexicans are actually net contributors to the IRS. They pay withholding taxes but then can't claim the return.
If you ever notice extra money on your Social Security statement - an undocumented probably stole your SSN. Don't worry - they'll never actually see the benefit - YOU will!
Ohhhhh, so illegals are good for us! Better than citizens, it seems. Thank you for educating everyone!
Posted on 7/10/14 at 10:48 am to Jbird
quote:
Sensors don't need to fly. Hell 20 years ago we had outerzone systems that could tell the difference between rabiit or dog sized movement and oh say chirren and gangbanger sized movement through the zone.
The sensor technology we have now is ridiculous. They can be placed near surface level and vertically to monitor tunneling. This in combination with a 10m deep (or deeper) steel skirted wall, concertina wire, and direct observation would make a fence a good solution. Eventually every obstacle can be beaten, but a professionally constructed and monitored fence will limit your illegal border crossings to almost nothing.
Surface level observation is too easy with thermals. We are talking multiple kilometers with basic man portable systems, and much further than that with JLENS and RAID type technology. Our technological resources makes observation of the border easier than it has ever been in history. Of course I am not telling you anything you don't already know. I just can't believe that people think our defenses would be so easily penetrated. Especially after 14 years of proving that they are not.
Posted on 7/10/14 at 10:48 am to Hill Tiger
A double fence end to end would cost $50 billion and be an economic stimulus.
Studies set the tax payer burden of illegals at somewhere around $115 billion per year.
Do the math and ask yourself why there is no fence.
Studies set the tax payer burden of illegals at somewhere around $115 billion per year.
Do the math and ask yourself why there is no fence.
Posted on 7/10/14 at 10:50 am to MrCarton
quote:
The sensor technology we have now is ridiculous. They can be placed near surface level and vertically to monitor tunneling. This in combination with a 10m deep (or deeper) steel skirted wall, concertina wire, and direct observation would make a fence a good solution. Eventually every obstacle can be beaten, but a professionally constructed and monitored fence will limit your illegal border crossings to almost nothing.
Surface level observation is too easy with thermals. We are talking multiple kilometers with basic man portable systems, and much further than that with JLENS and RAID type technology. Our technological resources makes observation of the border easier than it has ever been in history. Of course I am not telling you anything you don't already know. I just can't believe that people think our defenses would be so easily penetrated. Especially after 14 years of proving that they are not.
Posted on 7/10/14 at 10:51 am to Scoop
quote:
Do the math and ask yourself why there is no fence.
Because it is retarded and people will still easily get in.
Some of you people seem to be a tad out of touch with the risks people take to get here. I lived in Miami, it is flooded with Cubans, many of whom floated here in rafts. You can't stop desire.
Posted on 7/10/14 at 10:54 am to The Third Leg
quote:True
You can't stop desire.
So therefore we should open the floodgates. Obama is that you?
Posted on 7/10/14 at 10:56 am to The Third Leg
Did 60,000 Cuban kids land in Miami recently?
Apples and oranges.
Apples and oranges.
Posted on 7/10/14 at 10:56 am to The Third Leg
quote:
Some of you people seem to be a tad out of touch with the risks people take to get here. I lived in Miami, it is flooded with Cubans, many of whom floated here in rafts. You can't stop desire.
I am not out of touch with anything. If we wanted to stop people from arriving at our shores in rafts we could easily do so and the "solution" wouldn't be that hard. Just as overland border crossing can largely be prevented with direct observation of an obstacle(s) and technological surveillance. Countries with far fewer resources do a far better job controlling their borders than the USA.
We all know that eventually any obstacle can and will be beaten, but that doesn't mean it doesn't serve a purpose.
ETA: Your notion that people will "easily" get in to a modern defense such as the USGOV can afford and has tested for the last 14 years is ridiculous and unfounded. Between human observation, K-9 and tracking dogs and technical surveillance there is nothing short of a teleportation device that would allow anything close to the numbers of illegal immigrants to enter this country. To top it all off, the years and $ money required to beat the obstacle would be completely wasted once the USGOV discovers the breach and makes it no longer feasible. Try keeping your tunnel method a secret after several thousand illegals are detained on the US side...
This post was edited on 7/10/14 at 11:02 am
Posted on 7/10/14 at 10:57 am to The Third Leg
quote:
You can't stop desire.
-Trillhog
Posted on 7/10/14 at 10:59 am to MrCarton
It's all so simple.
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