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Message
Shooting spikes
Posted on 10/29/12 at 3:32 pm
Posted on 10/29/12 at 3:32 pm
Give me a reason not to. My idea is that a 1 year old with good genetics should be better than a spike his first year. I know a spike can grow to a decent racked buck but wouldn't the less than desireable gentetics be better of taken out?
12
Posted on 10/29/12 at 3:34 pm to FelicianaTigerfan
Because you never know what behind him. Fact
Posted on 10/29/12 at 3:44 pm to FelicianaTigerfan
you dont really know what he'll be until hes 3 or 4. a spike can grow to be much more then a decent buck. stop shooting them and stick to it, and you'll see.
Posted on 10/29/12 at 3:45 pm to FelicianaTigerfan
i'm pretty sure that rack development in first year is largely determined by how early/late in the year the buck is born. Could have great genetics, destined to have a huge rack, etc, but in the first year may only have spikes if he was conceived comparatively late in the year.
Posted on 10/29/12 at 3:45 pm to Lsuwannabe
Unless the deer is mature and a spike or you can tell it has poor genetics do not shoot it. I know people that shoot every spike they see and they always wonder why they NEVER kill big bucks. Let'm grow. Young bucks become big bucks with age (and good genetics)!
Posted on 10/29/12 at 3:46 pm to FelicianaTigerfan
That being said, until i become a much better hunter and can consistently see deer, if it's brown it's down for me. I am hunting public land though.
Posted on 10/29/12 at 3:48 pm to LSUisBetterthanU
Age makes makes nice bucks IMO with some good groceries on the ground.
Posted on 10/29/12 at 3:50 pm to FelicianaTigerfan
A buck born late during any natural event that may effect antler growth could very well be a spike. A spike is a spike mentality has been proven wrong numerous times. Do not shoot your spikes.
Now a 2 point with 15" main beams? Choot em
Now a 2 point with 15" main beams? Choot em
Posted on 10/29/12 at 3:50 pm to FelicianaTigerfan
From what i have read even 1 to 1-1/2 yr old spikes have the potential to have decent antlers but tend to be smaller at maturity than a forked antler yearling. i am kind of on the fence on this issue. I normally only take a spike if the spikes are long and have a bit of mass at the bases.
Posted on 10/29/12 at 3:57 pm to bayoudude
quote:
From what i have read even 1 to 1-1/2 yr old spikes have the potential to have decent antlers but tend to be smaller at maturity than a forked antler yearling.
That is my logic. We shoot all spikes, anything less than 8 pts at 2.5 years old and anything 8 pts or less at 3.5.
Posted on 10/29/12 at 4:10 pm to MillerMan
quote:
That is my logic. We shoot all spikes, anything less than 8 pts at 2.5 years old and anything 8 pts or less at 3.5.
If conditions are optimal, I agree, this works. however, for most people, pass on the spikes and let them mature. I would rather have another buck around that may take a year longer to mature, than shoot a spike. One more opportunity to shoot a good buck.
Posted on 10/29/12 at 4:14 pm to MillerMan
quote:
anything 8 pts or less at 3.5
Why? 8pts cant be great racks? I for one think a 130" 8pt is better than a 130" or even 135" 10pt. Culling doesn't work anyway.
Posted on 10/29/12 at 4:18 pm to FelicianaTigerfan
Felicana,
When I first started deer hunting the prevailing attitudes at the time were:
1. All spikes are genetically inferior.
2. Once a spike, alaways a spike.
From the current available info, neither statement is true, depending on the state of nutrition and the size/#s of the herd. Dr. James Kroll has a VERY good book on deer(about the size of an encyclopedia!) w/ a lot of great info. His studies have found that one cannot definitively predict a buck's ultimate rack based on his rack at 1 1/2 years of age. W/ adequate nutrition and a favorably sized deer herd, a spike (or other small racked deer) at 1 1/2 years of age can still grow to have a nice rack in adulthood. The main things are nutrition and a controlled number in the herd. Really not to much we as hunters can do re: nutrition (short of LOTS of supplemental nourishment), but we can affect the size of the herd by harvesting sufficient does to maximize the herd's health. Nowadays, I no longer shoot a young spike. On the other hand, if it's an older buck w/ spikes or an inferior rack, that's another story!
I think someone else referred earlier to the age of the deer, as well. What if spike is was birthed very early and is only a yearling, not a 1 1/2 year old? Or, what it the spike was born late in the season and is still quite young? You clearly wouldn't want to shoot either.
quote:
Give me a reason not to. My idea is that a 1 year old with good genetics should be better than a spike his first year. I know a spike can grow to a decent racked buck but wouldn't the less than desireable gentetics be better of taken out?
When I first started deer hunting the prevailing attitudes at the time were:
1. All spikes are genetically inferior.
2. Once a spike, alaways a spike.
From the current available info, neither statement is true, depending on the state of nutrition and the size/#s of the herd. Dr. James Kroll has a VERY good book on deer(about the size of an encyclopedia!) w/ a lot of great info. His studies have found that one cannot definitively predict a buck's ultimate rack based on his rack at 1 1/2 years of age. W/ adequate nutrition and a favorably sized deer herd, a spike (or other small racked deer) at 1 1/2 years of age can still grow to have a nice rack in adulthood. The main things are nutrition and a controlled number in the herd. Really not to much we as hunters can do re: nutrition (short of LOTS of supplemental nourishment), but we can affect the size of the herd by harvesting sufficient does to maximize the herd's health. Nowadays, I no longer shoot a young spike. On the other hand, if it's an older buck w/ spikes or an inferior rack, that's another story!
I think someone else referred earlier to the age of the deer, as well. What if spike is was birthed very early and is only a yearling, not a 1 1/2 year old? Or, what it the spike was born late in the season and is still quite young? You clearly wouldn't want to shoot either.
Posted on 10/29/12 at 4:18 pm to The Last Coco
I agree. I understand the thought process, but some deer will never be a 10 pr more. A mature 8 point is a trophy and shooting them to early is a shame. Seems like this method about breeding higher scoring deer than breeding mature bucks.
Not hating, millerman
Not hating, millerman
Posted on 10/29/12 at 4:21 pm to DieselTiger1
quote:
Seems like this method about breeding higher scoring deer than breeding mature bucks.
I couldn't agree more. And honestly, a huge 6 or a huge clean 8 is one of my goals. Sure, I'll shoot any mature buck, but given my druthers would put a massive 8 or 6 on the wall over a slightly high scoring, but more standard looking 10 or 12.
Posted on 10/29/12 at 4:23 pm to FelicianaTigerfan
quote:
Give me a reason not to. My idea is that a 1 year old with good genetics should be better than a spike his first year. I know a spike can grow to a decent racked buck but wouldn't the less than desireable gentetics be better of taken out?
Just take the dam thing. Its meat one day or another.
Hell, I know you want to, so just do it! 
Posted on 10/29/12 at 4:23 pm to The Last Coco
We are high fenced, and culling does work. These are the types of deer we want to see:
2.5 year old
3.5 year old
4.5 year old
ETA: And yes, we are high fenced and manage the herd for more inches on our deer. No reason to put that much work and $$$ into something and not get the best possible results IMO
2.5 year old
3.5 year old
4.5 year old
ETA: And yes, we are high fenced and manage the herd for more inches on our deer. No reason to put that much work and $$$ into something and not get the best possible results IMO
This post was edited on 10/29/12 at 4:28 pm
Posted on 10/29/12 at 4:32 pm to The Last Coco
I understand the older is better mentality over antler size. When I say spike, I'm not talking about a yearling with one or 2 inch nubs. I'm talking about an obvious, 120+ lb 1 year oldive seen bucks this age with forked horns, up to really small 8pts.
If I'm meat hunting wouldn't it be better to take out one of these spikes rather than a healthy doe? Especially in an area where deer don't need thinning out.
Fwiw I've shot one spike in my life and I was 12 years old.
While on the subject it was mentioned about late born deer. If I shoot a doe I try and shoot the ones having fawn late. Its been said her buck offspring will always be a step behind others in their age class.
If I'm meat hunting wouldn't it be better to take out one of these spikes rather than a healthy doe? Especially in an area where deer don't need thinning out.
Fwiw I've shot one spike in my life and I was 12 years old.
While on the subject it was mentioned about late born deer. If I shoot a doe I try and shoot the ones having fawn late. Its been said her buck offspring will always be a step behind others in their age class.
Posted on 10/29/12 at 4:34 pm to MillerMan
quote:
We are high fenced
Apologies. Obviously assumed you weren't high fence. Yeah, from a business standpoint I get the culling for inches vs overall impressiveness.
Out of curiosity, say y'all had a massive 3.5 y/o 8 pt in the 150" class, would you shoot it based on your rule, or leave it be for it's exceptional size? I guess, from a management standpoint are you very rigid, or is there some inherent flexibility?
ETA: Those deer are gorgeous. Obvisouly you know what you're doing.
This post was edited on 10/29/12 at 4:40 pm
Posted on 10/29/12 at 4:38 pm to bayoudude
quote:
I normally only take a spike if the spikes are long and have a bit of mass at the bases.
I shot one that was well over 200lbs. Spikes were only 3", but at the base, those suckers were bigger then a silver dollar. How many years that sucker got buy as a doe, hell if I know.
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