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Started By
Message
re: Planned freshwater diversions will doom LA salt fishing
Posted on 3/27/13 at 6:25 pm to lsufishnhunt
Posted on 3/27/13 at 6:25 pm to lsufishnhunt
quote:Help me out here. Did Capt Ricks ever answer the question I asked? Am I really "dyslexic"? If he wasn't such a blowhard, people might be willing to listen.
Fishhead is really kicking the hornets nest over on RnR
1
Posted on 3/27/13 at 8:35 pm to Fishhead
What did I miss???
Posted on 3/27/13 at 8:55 pm to nhassl1
I got temporarily banned from RNR for daring to question land building expert George Ricks. Oh wait, he's not a land building expert! He's a saltwater fishing guide! Oops.
Thing is, he is against adding freshwater diversions and thinks dredging is the answer, but doesn't have an answer as to how to maintain/replenish the dredged material once it erodes, which it inevitably will, especially with hurricanes. I spoke to Mike Lane (before he re-instated me lol) and his answer was that Mississippi uses dredge material to replenish it's beaches after storms. I disagree. The MS beaches are in fact man made from dredged material, but in order to replenish after a storm, all they do is drive front end loaders down Hwy 90, scoop up the sand, and hop the curb to dump it back on the beach. Did I mention it's SAND, not marsh mud? Also, how do you get front end loaders to replenish the marsh of LA? You can't replenish it that way. It will require sediment, but they won't hear it if it involves diversions.
The current diversion at Caenarvon most certainly is damaging the marsh. It provided NO sediment, only flotant disguised as freshwater marsh. But the new diversions are designed to allow sediment.
My only question is, is there a way to slow down the flow after it leaves the diversion to allow the sediment to actually settle in the marsh, rather than be blown out to the GOM?
Thing is, he is against adding freshwater diversions and thinks dredging is the answer, but doesn't have an answer as to how to maintain/replenish the dredged material once it erodes, which it inevitably will, especially with hurricanes. I spoke to Mike Lane (before he re-instated me lol) and his answer was that Mississippi uses dredge material to replenish it's beaches after storms. I disagree. The MS beaches are in fact man made from dredged material, but in order to replenish after a storm, all they do is drive front end loaders down Hwy 90, scoop up the sand, and hop the curb to dump it back on the beach. Did I mention it's SAND, not marsh mud? Also, how do you get front end loaders to replenish the marsh of LA? You can't replenish it that way. It will require sediment, but they won't hear it if it involves diversions.
The current diversion at Caenarvon most certainly is damaging the marsh. It provided NO sediment, only flotant disguised as freshwater marsh. But the new diversions are designed to allow sediment.
My only question is, is there a way to slow down the flow after it leaves the diversion to allow the sediment to actually settle in the marsh, rather than be blown out to the GOM?
Posted on 3/27/13 at 9:00 pm to Fishhead
The water would slow down enough to allow the sediment to settle out. That's not the issue, the issue is getting the sediment into the current water diversions.
Try suggesting that to your ole bud Rick.
Try suggesting that to your ole bud Rick.
Posted on 3/27/13 at 9:01 pm to Fishhead
Once the flow leaves the diversion and disperses, the velocity will drop and sediment will fall out.
Posted on 3/27/13 at 9:06 pm to Woody
I think it would for the most part, but bayous like Terre Boeuf would carry a lot of the sediment straight out to Black Bay, no? The very reason I spend more time fishing Reggio than Delacroix is because Terre Aux Bouef is like the dividing line between fresh muddy river water and cleaner, (yet pretty fresh) water in Reggio. I still think some bulkheads or other structures would help, especially closer to the diversion. Even assuming the marsh itself will slow it down (which I do think), the area closest to the diversion needs additional help. It's the very area that has been demolished by surge and there's very little real marsh there anymore.
Posted on 3/27/13 at 9:30 pm to Fishhead
Sure, some would, but eventually the coarse sediment will fall out. It's got a long way to go and a lot of marsh to traverse before it gets to the gulf. If it makes it to black bay, it will fall out there. If you look at the wax and atchafalaya, for example, the sediment runs right out the channel and deposits as soon as the velocity drops in the bay.
Posted on 3/27/13 at 9:45 pm to Woody
Right, but selfishly perhaps, I'd like to see the more inshore area maintained as well. I agree that once it reaches Black Bay, it would be deposited, and certainly some of it NEEDS to be deposited there. I used to run Black Bay in a 16' flat without hesitation. Now it's like the damn open Gulf. But I'd hate to see the areas I currently fish (near Reggio Marina) wash away any more than it already has, and would prefer it to be rebuilt. Again...selfishly. :)
Posted on 3/27/13 at 9:56 pm to Fishhead
For those who haven't seen this, here's a recent article in the TP quoting Mike Lane and Capt Ricks. Maybe Germans or whatever, sorry if so, but it's a point of reference to those just joining the discussion.
Speaking of the discussion, cudos to all here for a civil discussion without the "I'M RIGHT AND YOU'RE WRONG IF YOU DISAGREE" attitude going on at RNR. Lots of educated substance here.
In the above article, Ricks says they're catching 30 lb blue cats where speckled trout should be. I couldn't disagree more. They are USED TO catching speckled trout where 30 lb blue cats should be. It's a pretty short sighted point of view they're trying to slam down everyone's throat.
The article
Speaking of the discussion, cudos to all here for a civil discussion without the "I'M RIGHT AND YOU'RE WRONG IF YOU DISAGREE" attitude going on at RNR. Lots of educated substance here.
In the above article, Ricks says they're catching 30 lb blue cats where speckled trout should be. I couldn't disagree more. They are USED TO catching speckled trout where 30 lb blue cats should be. It's a pretty short sighted point of view they're trying to slam down everyone's throat.
The article
This post was edited on 3/27/13 at 9:57 pm
Posted on 3/27/13 at 10:17 pm to Fishhead
quote:
In the above article, Ricks says they're catching 30 lb blue cats where speckled trout should be. I couldn't disagree more. They are USED TO catching speckled trout where 30 lb blue cats should be. It's a pretty short sighted point of view they're trying to slam down everyone's throat.
No doubt. They have seen things one way and think that's the way it should be. I also don't think they understand what's happening to the speckled trout. They talk as if the freshwater is causing massive fish kills. The trout will move and adjust. They'll follow temperature and salinity gradients like they have since they came into existence.
Posted on 3/27/13 at 10:20 pm to Fishhead
quote:
Speaking of the discussion, cudos to all here for a civil discussion without the "I'M RIGHT AND YOU'RE WRONG IF YOU DISAGREE" attitude going on at RNR. Lots of educated substance here.
Posted on 3/28/13 at 12:08 am to Fishhead
And here is an article by the same author, posted 2 hours after the one you linked, reporting on research that indicates the Caernarvon diversion has a positive impact on the redfish fishery...
Caernarvon Redfish
Caernarvon Redfish
This post was edited on 3/28/13 at 12:43 am
Posted on 3/28/13 at 12:34 am to Woody
quote:
No doubt. They have seen things one way and think that's the way it should be. I also don't think they understand what's happening to the speckled trout. They talk as if the freshwater is causing massive fish kills. The trout will move and adjust. They'll follow temperature and salinity gradients like they have since they came into existence.
And there is solid research to back this up as well. Can't link it because its behind a pay wall in a scientific journal, but it says what you have summed up.
I also find it slightly amusing that Ricks seems to imply in the first article that there is a "Venice sub species" of specs that are "used to" the fresh water down in the Birds foot because they have been dealing with it for hundreds of years. So, problem solved. Just relocate those delta trout!
Posted on 3/28/13 at 7:25 am to diplip
Posted this morning on RodnReel:
IN RESPONSE TO SKIFISH, GERALD, PAT, AND JOHN
Thank you gentlemen for your informative posts as well as your support in this very important matter.
I'd especially like to thank Dr. Pat Fitzpatrick for his continued help.
Tomorrow, Mike Lane, Plaquemines Parish President Billy Nungesser, and Myself will be on WWL Radio with Don Dubuc at 11:00 am. You can also stream it live on www.wwl.com. Please listen to the facts, and please call in and voice your concerns. I have some scientific evidence that supports our views on diversions. Please listen and learn the facts.
DREDGE DON'T DIVERT
Capt. George Ricks
Thursday, March 28, 2013 @ 7:11:32 AM
IN RESPONSE TO SKIFISH, GERALD, PAT, AND JOHN
Thank you gentlemen for your informative posts as well as your support in this very important matter.
I'd especially like to thank Dr. Pat Fitzpatrick for his continued help.
Tomorrow, Mike Lane, Plaquemines Parish President Billy Nungesser, and Myself will be on WWL Radio with Don Dubuc at 11:00 am. You can also stream it live on www.wwl.com. Please listen to the facts, and please call in and voice your concerns. I have some scientific evidence that supports our views on diversions. Please listen and learn the facts.
DREDGE DON'T DIVERT
Capt. George Ricks
Thursday, March 28, 2013 @ 7:11:32 AM
Posted on 3/28/13 at 7:28 am to Deege
The marshes are doomed. That concerns me more than the fishing.
Posted on 3/28/13 at 7:37 am to Deege
quote:
Please listen and learn the facts.
i don't know much about the freshwater diversions and how those engineering projects work, but i do find it ridiculous that a charter boat captain is trying to tell everyone what to do.
i mean, he is not educated on the subject and by his profession he clearly has a conflict of interest with the matter at hand. sounds like a blowhard.
Posted on 3/28/13 at 7:38 am to Deege
quote:
Please listen and learn the facts.
Oh the irony in that statement.
He has some points about it pushing the salt water species further out, but that's common sense and was known way before he started his dredge don't divert campaign. Then there is the Caernarvon diversion they keep screaming about which was acknowledged as not being a sedement diversion so he's comparing apples to non-sediment diverting oranges.
There will be some instant negative impacts on the salt water fishing in the area, but they speak nothing of the positive impacts to the freshwater fishing in that area. Not everyone spec fishes (I know it sounds crazy) the bass fisherman are going to be excited by the results from the diversions.
Posted on 3/28/13 at 7:46 am to diplip
quote:
I also find it slightly amusing that Ricks seems to imply in the first article that there is a "Venice sub species" of specs that are "used to" the fresh water down in the Birds foot because they have been dealing with it for hundreds of years. So, problem solved. Just relocate those delta trout!
A "sub species" of trout that thrive and people travel from all over the place to come and catch because the fishing down there is so great.
Posted on 3/28/13 at 8:05 am to Scrowe
Kind of hard to take the guy seriously when he has "DREDGE DON'T DIVERT" in every post. He admits that dredging alone won't solve the issue, but continues to have the above in every post. At this point in time dredging is way too expensive of an option to consider for such a small portion of the Louisiana coast.
No matter what the Master Plan includes, we are just prolonging the inevitable. Subsidence and Hurricanes are the two natural phenomenon we will never be able to control and both will continue to take away our marsh. Neither one of these things can be stopped by any man or plan. I don't believe the freshwater diversions are making anything worse...they just can't keep up with the natural loss and are not as efficient as once thought. But what else is there to try?????
No matter what the Master Plan includes, we are just prolonging the inevitable. Subsidence and Hurricanes are the two natural phenomenon we will never be able to control and both will continue to take away our marsh. Neither one of these things can be stopped by any man or plan. I don't believe the freshwater diversions are making anything worse...they just can't keep up with the natural loss and are not as efficient as once thought. But what else is there to try?????
This post was edited on 3/28/13 at 8:09 am
Posted on 3/28/13 at 8:15 am to Scrowe
quote:
quote:
I also find it slightly amusing that Ricks seems to imply in the first article that there is a "Venice sub species" of specs that are "used to" the fresh water down in the Birds foot because they have been dealing with it for hundreds of years. So, problem solved. Just relocate those delta trout!
A "sub species" of trout that thrive and people travel from all over the place to come and catch because the fishing down there is so great.
so you are saying that you believe that a sub species of trout evolved in the birdsfoot to become more tolerant to freshwater??
I know the fishing is world class, i go as often as possible, but please tell me you don't think that those trout are any different and that comment was a bit tongue in cheek...
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