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Message
re: opinions on new concealed carry gun?
Posted on 8/30/12 at 7:11 am to pmart32
Posted on 8/30/12 at 7:11 am to pmart32
quote:
The only thing that bothers me is the grip safety. Its like the one on 1911's. If I'm in a situation where I need to use it, I may not grip it right on the safety and it may not fire. Thats my only concern, you know?
This is definitely a valid consideration.
The grip safety on the XD bears a passing resemblance to a 1911, and is far easier to to "miss." This is a significant reason why so few (virtually none) major LE agencies issue the XD.
The fans of the 1911 often overlook the fact that John Moses Browning designed that gun without a grip safety. It was added later to appease the U.S. Military. (You won't find the grip safety on the Browning High Power.)
It's not an issue of "practicing until you get it right." It's an issue of practicing until you can't possibly "F" it up ............ under stress, even while grappling with an attacker.
A significant number of top competition shooters "pin" (disable) the grip safety on their 1911's. And those guys have a lot more repetitions (presentation from holster and firing) than most on this forum.
Bottom line: If you're comfortable with a grip safety, go for it. But consider getting a 1911 instead of the XD so you'll at least have a "full size" safety "button." (And remember, you can't rack the slide on the XD if the grip safety isn't fully depressed -- which might suck if you have to clear a malfunction with an injured hand).
Edited to add:
I don't think the OP's CCW instructor is very off the mark about the .380's. The smaller the caliber, the better shooter you need to be, 'cause they ain't gonna penetrate (especially through bones) like a service caliber weapon. It's not a coincidence that LE agencies don't issue .380's as a primary sidearm, nor is it a coincidence that virtually every major defensive handgun academy expects you to show up with a service caliber weapon.
If you're gonna drop down to a .380, I'd suggest giving serious consideration to carrying FMJ ammo. You can't suspend the laws of physics (i.e. expecting a very weak round to expand significantly and still penetrate adequately).
This post was edited on 8/30/12 at 7:52 am
1
Posted on 8/30/12 at 7:31 am to bapple
quote:
And even though some people say .380 ACP is a pea shooter, it's better to have a .380 in your pocket than a .45 left at home. The good thing about a .380 is that you can carry it all the time with comfort - it just feels like an extra cell phone
This. I own a freakin arsenal, but 90% are either too bulky or heavy to carry, esp when I'm wearing gym shorts or something casual.
I just invested in a Ruger LCP, and it's by FAR the best carry gun I've ever had. I LOVE my .45s, but even the glock 36 is a little heavy for me, despite the slim design.
Push come to shove, it's all your personal preference. If you're comfortable, and can put some rounds where you intend to hit, when it counts, thats all you need.
Posted on 8/30/12 at 8:01 am to Jambo
quote:
.380s can get the job done. My instructor said the same thing.
I carry a S&W Bodyguard .380 in my pocket with an extra mag weak side pocket. It is an accurate little gun and have no doubt i could stop a threat with it. BTW never take class from that guy again.
Posted on 8/30/12 at 9:11 am to lsufan1971
quote:
I carry a S&W Bodyguard .380 in my pocket with an extra mag weak side pocket. It is an accurate little gun and have no doubt i could stop a threat with it. BTW never take class from that guy again.
Out of curiosity, where did you take your CHP class ?
Posted on 8/30/12 at 10:24 am to dawg23
Check the Walther PPS in 9MM. It's very comfortable to carry and very accurate for a pistol it's size. I carry in a Theis IWB all day long with no problems.
Posted on 8/30/12 at 12:28 pm to pmart32
quote:
I completed the course for a concealed carry permit and I need some help deciding on a gun. I am stuck between an M&P Shield 9mm, Glock 26, or a Springfield XDM sub compact .45? Help!
I have shot all three of the mentioned guns and personally liked the shield the best. I actually bought the shield in 40 s&w about a month back. Great gun. Very accurate and easy to control for compact sized gun. 9 mm shield would be a good choice in my opinion if you don't want to consider the 40. All three are nice guns. No bad choice out of these options.
Posted on 8/30/12 at 12:32 pm to Professor Chaos
quote:
I own a freakin arsenal, but 90% are either too bulky or heavy to carry, esp when I'm wearing gym shorts or something casual.
I just invested in a Ruger LCP, and it's by FAR the best carry gun I've ever had. I LOVE my .45s, but even the glock 36 is a little heavy for me, despite the slim design.
Jambo, I've been wearing wearing shorts w/ pockets moreso this summer than in past years. I find that even my Kel-Tec P3AT can be annoying when carried in the pocket of gym short b/c the pocket sags so much. I've started carrying a 3.5" Commander 1911 IWB of gym shorts/sweat pants using a Remora clipless holster. You'd be surprised how well this holster works. Although the 1911 is much heavier than the 380, the 1911 doesn't sag. Think about a Remora holster if you'd like to have the option of carrying a 45 while wearing gym shorts. They're very inexpensive and have rapid turn around on the order. They have a tuckable version also, but I have no experience w/ it.
LINK
Posted on 8/30/12 at 1:07 pm to TigerOnThe Hill
quote:
Jambo, I've been wearing wearing shorts w/ pockets moreso this summer than in past years. I find that even my Kel-Tec P3AT can be annoying when carried in the pocket of gym short b/c the pocket sags so much. I've started carrying a 3.5" Commander 1911 IWB of gym shorts/sweat pants using a Remora clipless holster. You'd be surprised how well this holster works. Although the 1911 is much heavier than the 380, the 1911 doesn't sag. Think about a Remora holster if you'd like to have the option of carrying a 45 while wearing gym shorts. They're very inexpensive and have rapid turn around on the order. They have a tuckable version also, but I have no experience w/ it.
LINK /
Tiger, thanks for the link. That looks very interesting. With no clip, and loose shorts, even running around or working and lifting things/bending over a lot, no clip allows this thing to stay in place?
Posted on 8/30/12 at 1:51 pm to Bull11
quote:
I actually bought the shield in 40 s&w about a month back. Great gun. Very accurate and easy to control for compact sized gun. 9 mm shield would be a good choice in my opinion if you don't want to consider the 40.
I haven't shot any of the M&P Shields, but I have seen some good reports from trainers that I respect. One great feature of the Shield that is mentioned in these reports is that it has an excellent trigger reset.
I carry a 9mm Kahr (PM9) as my BUG//#2 gun. It has a great (very smooth) DAO trigger. But the trigger has no reset position. So, when shooting it at "speed" (which for me, using the Kahr, isn't really fast .. maybe ~ 4 shots/second) it's easy to short-stroke the trigger because I'm used to the Glock's trigger reset.
If 9mm Shields are as reliable as the original M&P's, and if the trigger is as good as I've been told, I'll be acquiring one or two pretty soon.
Edited to add:
The only negative I've seen in the test reports is that the Shield has an external safety (all the full-size M&P's can be bought "with" or "without"). But all the tests said the safety lever is small, stiff and unobtrusive -- allowing the user the simply carry with the safety disengaged, with little chance of it accidentally becoming disengaged. So that's not a show-stopper for me.
This post was edited on 8/30/12 at 1:58 pm
Posted on 8/30/12 at 2:14 pm to Professor Chaos
quote:
Check the Walther PPS in 9MM. It's very comfortable to carry and very accurate for a pistol it's size. I carry in a Theis IWB all day long with no problems.
This. Also can be had in .40. rides great iwb. I wear a medium t-shirt with it and you can't see it.
Also no way I'd ever buy a cc pistol with a grip safety. What if you are under someone struggling for the gun like george zimmerman and you can get off a shot, but can't grip the handle?
I can't think of one advantage of a grip safety in a live self defense situation.
Posted on 8/30/12 at 2:24 pm to dawg23
quote:
Out of curiosity, where did you take your CHP class ?
Gordon Hutchinson's class.
Posted on 8/30/12 at 3:27 pm to lsufan1971
quote:
With no clip, and loose shorts, even running around or working and lifting things/bending over a lot, no clip allows this thing to stay in place?
Jambo, yes the Remora works well under those circumstances as long as the waist band is not loose. Snug up the drawstrings and you should be good to go.:-) Here are a few "testimonial" threads:
LINK
LINK
LINK
Posted on 8/30/12 at 4:44 pm to dawg23
quote:
I don't think the OP's CCW instructor is very off the mark about the .380's. The smaller the caliber, the better shooter you need to be, 'cause they ain't gonna penetrate (especially through bones) like a service caliber weapon. It's not a coincidence that LE agencies don't issue .380's as a primary sidearm, nor is it a coincidence that virtually every major defensive handgun academy expects you to show up with a service caliber weapon.
If you're gonna drop down to a .380, I'd suggest giving serious consideration to carrying FMJ ammo. You can't suspend the laws of physics (i.e. expecting a very weak round to expand significantly and still penetrate adequately).
If you get into a conversation about "stopping power," you will not be able to drop someone with great certainty unless you hit the central nervous system. The only way to do this with force and accuracy is with a service rifle or shotgun, and that is it. Handguns are simply designed to supplement rifles as backup weapons. The big thing about them is that they are small, hence why there wouldn't be any point in conceal carrying a rifle.
That being said, I think .380 is a decent option. Law enforcement doesn't adopt .380 as a sidearm caliber because they have to carry outside the waistband 24/7, unless off duty. With that ability, I would rather have a full-sized gun too.
But for your average concealed carrier, how would you fit a full-sized handgun into a pocket? That is the only reason I mention the .380 - it is super TINY. You will carry something that is comfortable more often. If it's bothersome, you'll start to leave it at home.
I carry a Kahr CM9 IWB and it's comfortable enough for me. If I carried a double stack all the time, sitting down with that lump in my lower back may be more obtrusive. Like I said, the more comfortable, the more you'll carry it.
And, with today's powder technology, .380 ACP has some decent offerings. My dad has his loaded up with 90gr Speer Gold Dots. And as said before, it may not be a 230gr .45 round, but try fitting a .45 in your pocket. It's just not gonna happen.
EDIT: I'm not saying you HAVE to pocket carry, but saying .380 is inadequate is nonsense. Would you want to be shot by one to test its stopping power? Neither would I. Just because you produce a weapon under stress does not assure that you would need to shoot and kill the guy. IWB is still a good option, especially with a subcompact single-stack magazine like a Shield or CM9.
This post was edited on 8/30/12 at 4:49 pm
Posted on 8/30/12 at 5:24 pm to TigerOnThe Hill
quote:
yes the Remora works well under those circumstances as long as the waist band is not loose. Snug up the drawstrings and you should be good to go.:-) Here are a few "testimonial" threads:
OK -- you've convinced me to try a few of these things. Now if they don't work ......................
Posted on 8/30/12 at 5:40 pm to pmart32
quote:Both of you are wrong.
bc I do not feel .380s can get the job done. My instructor said the same thing.
Posted on 8/30/12 at 7:07 pm to Blue Velvet
How would you like to be shot in the face with it?
Posted on 8/30/12 at 7:16 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
I wouldn't like it at all.
Posted on 8/30/12 at 7:22 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
Preaching to the choir. My CCW is a .32 ACP.
Posted on 8/30/12 at 7:23 pm to Blue Velvet
That was a subtle judge reference 
If the shite hit the fan, I'd rather have a .22 full of CB caps than my fists.
If the shite hit the fan, I'd rather have a .22 full of CB caps than my fists.
Posted on 8/30/12 at 7:23 pm to Blue Velvet
I've got a 32 as well
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