re: Ideas on which way a deer could've run

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Was told we had to leave the camp because FIL was ready to go.

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Damn. I know you are doing your best, but who leaves a decent blood trail on a great buck cause its time to go home to take medicine, or some other excuse.

If you called the dog folks you would be on your way to a taxidermist this week.

Is your FIL always an uptight fella, or does the stress of the hunting camp bring it out in him?

ETA: Not directed at you, but the FIL. I understand you gotta go when he says.

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200 yds with a .350 Legend

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You’ll be at about 1400fps with 800ft-lbs of energy with the bullet dropping 8-9” at 200yds assuming 100yd zero. Even if you aimed 3” over the top of his back and made a good shot, the bullet probably didn’t expand much if at all. Enough to kill it if you got both kings but maybe not as quick as you’d like. Probably should’ve called in the dogs… that size rack is a once in a lifetime for a lot of people. You might think about changing to a better 200yd caliber like a 6.5 Grendel if you’re going to take 200yd shots.

They’re both AR15 calibers and Grendel is the best for energy, flatness, drift, and general deer killing with less recoil.

The Grendel is great for 200yd shots and closer. Semi auto good enough medicine for deer and hogs which such little recoil that follow up shots are very quick because the optic barely moves off target when firing. Great for recoil sensitive folks/kids and great for deer hunting on a place with a lot of hogs.

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They’re both AR15 calibers

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And now you’re getting to the root of the problem: the AR platform is best marginal as a deer rifle and useless if you’re looking at 200 yd shots (I’m not talking AR10). In its simplest form the lethality of any cartridge boils down to mass x velocity; design limitations of the AR means you are stuck with a cartridge with limited powder capacity and light for caliber bullets. With the Legend you are at least able to shoot a heavy enough bullet to make it suitable for deer at shorter ranges - but would you even consider taking a 200 yard shot at a deer with a 35 Remington (which is more ‘powerful’ than .350 Legend)? The Grendel is just underpowered; sure it will kill a deer if it’s standing still and perfectly broadside (and you might even find it)’ but what if it’s quartering away or you hit a shoulder?

I assume you mentioned the Grendel thinking he would just swap out uppers - but it wouldn’t cost much more to buy a Ruger American. I don’t have a problem with ARs - I have one and love it for hogs.... but that is generally 50-75 yard work and I’m not going to lose any sleep if they run off and die in a thicket. If you’re going to use an AR for deer you need to have a realistic understanding of its limitations and choose your shots accordingly - and sometimes that means not taking a shot.

Part of me wonders if the reason the FIL comes across as a dick (at least in his son in law’s telling of this story) is because he’s been hunting long enough to know all of this and was pissed off that his daughter’s husband (1) brought an AR on a deer hunt and then (2) took a 200 yard shot and injured (possibly fatally) a trophy buck.

I’m not meaning to trash the OP; there’s a big live and learn component to all this and there is no substitute for experience. This is part of becoming a better hunter - and if nothing else at least next time he will know not to take a 200 yard shot with a 350 Legend.

EDIT: I had a chance to go on a 'management hunt' in South Texas a few years back where a biologist had told the owners to shoot a bunch of does. The ranch manager was a crusty old fart and did all of the shooting... using a .22 mag. He shot them in the neck and most dropped where they were standing like the hand of God reached down and snatched the life from them. But that doesn't make a .22 mag a deer rifle.

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EDIT: I had a chance to go on a 'management hunt' in South Texas a few years back where a biologist had told the owners to shoot a bunch of does. The ranch manager was a crusty old fart and did all of the shooting... using a .22 mag. He shot them in the neck and most dropped where they were standing like the hand of God reached down and snatched the life from them. But that doesn't make a .22 mag a deer rifle.

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I have family friends that have high-fence acreage and they've killed more deer with .223 (regular semi, not an AR) than I have hairs on my head. But their shots are all 100 yards or less and they understand neck shots. No question it will do it, but as you said you have to pick your shot and let them walk if it's not there.

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the AR platform is best marginal as a deer rifle and useless if you’re looking at 200 yd shots (I’m not talking AR10). In its simplest form the lethality of any cartridge boils down to mass x velocity

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I'm not gonna bash the guy about what gun he shot the deer with. Although it's not the ideal 200yd whitetail round, it's good enough to be fatal. He lost this deer because of either poor shot placement and/or laziness in recovery.

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I'm not gonna bash the guy about what gun he shot the deer with. Although it's not the ideal 200yd whitetail round, it's good enough to be fatal.

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It absolutely was not my intent to bash the OP about his gun... I'm just saying that he really needs to understand its limitations.


But here's the hard part that is not intended as a bash but may come across as one anyway: if he did know his rifle's limitations he never would have taken that shot.

One of my favorite rifles is an old .300 Savage lever action shooting 180 gr. bullets at about 2,350 mv (I throw that in because I checked and the standard load for 350 Legend is a 180 gr. bullet with a shitty bc launched at 2,100 mv - at 200 yards it has dropped 9.5" and slowed down to 1,500 fps). I've killed a bunch of deer with that Savage 99 and know what it can (and can't) do - and if I saw a deer at 200 yards while hunting with that rifle I wouldn't even put it to my shoulder.

Npw if a 140 class buck had stepped out 200 yards away 30 years ago I may well have taken the shot. A big part of learning what any gun can and can't do is through experience... and the OP has some now.

Just some folks that think you have to shoot a whitetail with a 300 win mag and others shooting at deer 200 yards with a 350 legend, injuring the deer, and not making an effort to retrieve the game animal (wanton waste, a ticketable offense).