- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Finally got power back after 5 days in Shreveport (This ain't happening again)
Posted on 6/21/23 at 5:39 am to Clyde Tipton
Posted on 6/21/23 at 5:39 am to Clyde Tipton
Definitely get an EasyStart soft starter for your central ac. I have the cord/inlet setup you posted, with an interlock kit on my panel. My 10kw Champion will start my 5 ton unit now.
0
Posted on 6/21/23 at 6:28 am to Clyde Tipton
Agreed, I would like to understand as I also use a 50A manual input, lockout switch and breakers to run my house when out of power.
I didn’t realize there was still danger to line workers under this scenario.
I didn’t realize there was still danger to line workers under this scenario.
Posted on 6/21/23 at 10:22 am to Clyde Tipton
quote:
Can you touch on this unbalanced load some more for us?
Are you saying the generator is pumping unregulated power in, but any excess power not being used is discharged into a neutral or ground? Or hooking up the generator on one side of your panel unbalances the load because it was all wired to be balanced (theoretically) to begin with and you've now introduced more power on one side vs. the other?
I want to learn more. I'm confident enough and competent to change light fixtures and outlets, but I always kill the main. I want to understand what's going on inside the box besides my limited knowledge of breakers and why they do what they do.
Current is equivalent to water in a pipe. For work to be accomplished it has to flow and that is accomplished by adding pressure and providing a path for it current to flow. In a 120 volt, single phase circuit or a simple 12 Volt DC circuit current flows from the "hot side" to the grounded side through some sort of resistance which produces the work (a light bulb for example. In multi-phase circuit like a 220 volt circuit there are 2 "hot" (phase) conductors attached to the resistance (load). The phases out of sequence so current can flow back to the source through the phase conductor which has no pressure on it...it flows back and forth between the two phase conductors and produces the work (power). If there is an unbalanced load between the two phases....say there is a 120 volt device connected to one of the two phases, the current from that device will go back to the source via a third conductor, the neutral. In the case of just a central AC unit that current would be minimal...consisting of the total between any differences in conductir lengths and any control or 120 volt devices connected into the circuit...the control board is usually 120 volt and there will certainly be a control transformer. That current differences between the 2 phase conductors is the unbalanced load and it will go back to the source via the neutral. In a perfectly balanced circuit there would be no load on the neutral...this is possible even with a single phase circuit in series...in a multi phase circuit like a 220 volt single phase circuit for an AC or Range it is not posible to have a completely balanced load...there is going to be some differences due to controls and losses in the conductors themselves. In a single phase (110 volt) circuit the entirety of the current will go back to the source on the neutral.
It is the same concept as a 12 volt dc circuit...if you have ever connected a battery terminal to a circuit with a load on it you will get an arc...meaning current is flowing, completing the circuit and producing work. We call that a ground usually but it is really a negative just like a neutral in a AC circuit....ground is actually a direct path to earth in electrical terms and is used as a source for residual current otherwise it would not flow.
Posted on 6/21/23 at 10:22 am to Clyde Tipton
There is a Facebook page:
“Generators: portable generators to power entire house“
It gives information on portable generators powering a house. They help with the setup, what’s needed and where to find. Very informative.
I have a tri fuel generator. It runs off Gas, Propane and NG.
“Generators: portable generators to power entire house“
It gives information on portable generators powering a house. They help with the setup, what’s needed and where to find. Very informative.
I have a tri fuel generator. It runs off Gas, Propane and NG.
Posted on 6/21/23 at 10:28 am to Redlos
quote:
Agreed, I would like to understand as I also use a 50A manual input, lockout switch and breakers to run my house when out of power.
I didn’t realize there was still danger to line workers under this scenario.
The actual hazard is, in my opinion, negligible. Linemen perform far more hazardous tasks every day than they face in the situation in the video. That being said those hazards are readily recognized and mitigated...the risks posed by the technique in the video is not normally identifiable until the connection is broken...and then that current, unknown to the worker, is looking for a path to ground and is going to go to ground if there is a path...if that path involves the workers body it is not a great conductor but it will act as a conductor and it only takes an very tiny amount of current to stop a human heart...we are told 1/10th of an amp. A 100 watt lightbulb on a 110 v circuit would be about 8 amps....way more than what is required to stop a human heart. While it seems trivial were I a lineman and it happened to me I would not be a happy lineman...and that being the case it has been outlawed in many jurisdictions.
Posted on 6/21/23 at 10:37 am to AwgustaDawg
My house has breakers and fuses. I know it needs to be updated to all breakers to be up to code, but it's one of those things I've put off.
Should I update to all breakers before pursuing this power inlet idea?
Should I update to all breakers before pursuing this power inlet idea?
Posted on 6/21/23 at 11:07 am to AwgustaDawg
quote:
It only prevents the phase conductors from back feeding the service entrance conductors...the grounding electrode conductor and the neutral are still connected to the grid and may carry the unbalanced load and any ground faults to the utility companies transformer.
You do realize most transfer switches don't transfer the neutral right?
And also the ground does not run back to the pole. Only neutral does.
Posted on 6/21/23 at 12:54 pm to Clyde Tipton
I have this same 12,500 in the first gen from 2 years ago. I have a 2300sqft home with a 5 ton AC. This Generator ran everything like any other day except hot water heater and dryer breaker I had off. Zero issues for 14 days. AC never missed a lick. Would turn ac off and turn on breaker for hot water heater for about an hour to have hot water for showers and washing dishes. Then back off and ac on. Ran my entire house like normal. Dryer was used in the same fashion for drying clothes. Best decision ever. Used a fraction of the total gas these propane whole home models do. Avg 8-10 gallons a day
Posted on 6/21/23 at 2:02 pm to One More Shot
quote:
I have this same 12,500 in the first gen from 2 years ago. I have a 2300sqft home with a 5 ton AC. This Generator ran everything like any other day except hot water heater and dryer breaker I had off. Zero issues for 14 days. AC never missed a lick. Would turn ac off and turn on breaker for hot water heater for about an hour to have hot water for showers and washing dishes. Then back off and ac on. Ran my entire house like normal. Dryer was used in the same fashion for drying clothes. Best decision ever. Used a fraction of the total gas these propane whole home models do.
That makes me feel good. I'm at 2134 sq. ft. with a 4.5 ton.
ETA: And a gas burner hot water heater.
This post was edited on 6/21/23 at 2:04 pm
Posted on 6/21/23 at 2:57 pm to Clyde Tipton
I opted for fuel efficiency.
We ran a 3500 inverter (clean power source) after Laura for weeks.
No issues with the smart devices since the inverter is clean.
Used 7 gallons of gas in 24 hours continuous run.
Ran two fridges, lights, fans, and two window units. 5k BTU and 8k BTU.
Turned off the acs in the morning to wash clothes.
Being able to run 5 days on 35 gallons of fuel was nice.
30 Amp plug.
We ran a 3500 inverter (clean power source) after Laura for weeks.
No issues with the smart devices since the inverter is clean.
Used 7 gallons of gas in 24 hours continuous run.
Ran two fridges, lights, fans, and two window units. 5k BTU and 8k BTU.
Turned off the acs in the morning to wash clothes.
Being able to run 5 days on 35 gallons of fuel was nice.
30 Amp plug.
Posted on 6/22/23 at 5:37 am to Clyde Tipton
quote:
My house has breakers and fuses. I know it needs to be updated to all breakers to be up to code, but it's one of those things I've put off.
Should I update to all breakers before pursuing this power inlet idea?
If the fuses aren't causing problems (lights flickering, blowing fuses etc) they should be fine. Fuses are, when used properly and installed properly, slightly "safer" than breakers in that they seldom fail to do what they are designed to do. If they have been in use for a long period of time with no problems the circuits protected by fuses are probably fine...I would inspect them and look for signs of heat at terminations and the fuse clips etc. but....any discoloration of a wire termination or a fuse end or clip could indicate a lose connection but if you haven't seen flickering or dimming of lights when something like the AC comes on they are probably good. If they are screw in type fuses and not cartridge type (most likely) probably best to unscrew them and inspect the fuse holder...ain't no telling what might be in one...used to be common to use a penny to fix a blown fuse and a penny has an ampacity of several hundred amps where the #14 or #12 copper wire it is protecting is only good for about 30 and can only be fused at 15 and 20.
I would be thankful for the fuses. If they ain't causing any issues they are far and away better than the arc fault breakers that are required by code in most jurisdictions. Most likely the circuits you have protected by fuses would have to be protected by an arc fault breaker and they will most likely trip a couple of times a month.
The only caveat is if you decide to sell the house and a prospective buyer does an inspection and is concerned about the fuses.
Posted on 6/22/23 at 6:11 am to JusTrollin
quote:
You do realize most transfer switches don't transfer the neutral right?
And also the ground does not run back to the pole. Only neutral does
A 4 pole transfer switch breaks all conductors. The neutral and the grounding electrode conductor should be tied to the same point at the first point of entry and the neutral is tied back to the neutral tap of the utility companies transformer. That tap is also grounded. Ideally all fault current will go to ground at the facility grounded electrode and any unbalanced load will go to ground at the transformer but current will follow the path of least resistance and while that path may be the facility grounded electrode there is no guarantee that it is....it can be tree root or a person.
Posted on 6/22/23 at 8:27 am to AwgustaDawg
fwiw, the whole home Generac automatic transfer switch I helped my brother in law install at his house only disconnects the hots. Neutrals stay tied in with the grid. If I'm thinking right, this is effectively the same wiring condition as if you where to wire in a basic interlock switch on your house panel.
Both legs disconnected from grid; neutral/ground remains connection.
I have wondered about the possibility of the neutral causing line workers trouble. A few years ago after a bad ice storm, I had my generator jerry-rigged to my outside panel. I unbolted both incoming hots and the neutral too just to be safe. When one of the linemen came to work on the line he noticed my ghetto setup. Didn't seem to have a problem with it but he questioned why I disconnected the neutral. I told him just to be sure I was fully disconnected from the grid. He just shrugged.
Both legs disconnected from grid; neutral/ground remains connection.
I have wondered about the possibility of the neutral causing line workers trouble. A few years ago after a bad ice storm, I had my generator jerry-rigged to my outside panel. I unbolted both incoming hots and the neutral too just to be safe. When one of the linemen came to work on the line he noticed my ghetto setup. Didn't seem to have a problem with it but he questioned why I disconnected the neutral. I told him just to be sure I was fully disconnected from the grid. He just shrugged.
Posted on 6/22/23 at 8:49 am to AwgustaDawg
Generac residential line is not selling 4 pole transfer switches…. Not breaking the neutral is perfectly safe as long as it’s bonded to ground at the service entrance.
This post was edited on 6/22/23 at 8:49 am
Posted on 6/22/23 at 9:57 am to JusTrollin
My power went down again last night about 10 pm. Thankfully right after the baseball game.
Restoration estimated for 6-23-2023 at 10 pm, so I have another 36 hours of this hell.
A family member is going to let me borrow their generator and 8000 btu window unit. I'm going to pick it up on my lunch break and get it running so my room will be cool this afternoon.
Restoration estimated for 6-23-2023 at 10 pm, so I have another 36 hours of this hell.
A family member is going to let me borrow their generator and 8000 btu window unit. I'm going to pick it up on my lunch break and get it running so my room will be cool this afternoon.
Posted on 6/22/23 at 10:15 am to Clyde Tipton
I had no idea how much I did not know about all this 
Posted on 6/22/23 at 10:34 am to AlxTgr
Me too.
I'm kind of excited to have a little test run this afternoon in preparation of getting my own equipment.
I'm kind of excited to have a little test run this afternoon in preparation of getting my own equipment.
Posted on 6/22/23 at 1:14 pm to JusTrollin
quote:
Generac residential line is not selling 4 pole transfer switches…. Not breaking the neutral is perfectly safe as long as it’s bonded to ground at the service entrance.
The NEC requires it but that does not mean the AHJ hasn't over-ridden that or the version of the code has been adapted locally. I assure you Genrac is indeed selling them where required.
Not breaking the neutral is indeed perfectly safe as long as it is bonded to the grounding electrode connector at the service IF that is the path of least resistance to ground. That is almost always the case...but it is not always the case and there have been linemen injured because it is not always the case and the practice as described has been outlawed in many jurisdictions.
Posted on 6/23/23 at 5:20 pm to AlxTgr
quote:Assuming that funding isn't an issue, installing a standby generator takes zero knowledge.
I had no idea how much I did not know about all this
A licensed electrician will connect the transfer switch (that automatically cranks generator when "commercial" power outage occurs), and a a licensed plumber will connect the natural gas or propane lines.
We have frequent short (2-4 hour) outages with Entergy during strong thunderstorms. And we've had several hurricane-related events that lasted for days.
House be hot after a couple of hours in the summer. LSU games are hard to watch w/o power. Hard to sleep at night when temps get to 80 or more. Life is a lot less complicated with an 18-22 kw standby generator.
Ours is 18 kw. Runs EVERYTHING (three A/C units, washer, dryer, ovens microwave, TVs). Everything - 10 seconds after power outage.
We had two portable gasoline generators (Honda) for years. Won't ever go back to that source for power, and won't miss waiting in line at convenience stores for fuel.
Posted on 6/24/23 at 5:29 pm to Clyde Tipton
quote:
What I am describing is a $1000 generator, $250 in parts to rig it up correctly and a system that runs enough to keep you comfortable with a couple of window units in your bedrooms, have lights, TV and internet and your freezers/refrigerators on.
You just described the exact setup I have. Run the whole house minus ac. We put a window unit in the master bedroom to sleep
Page 3 of 3
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News