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re: Finally got power back after 5 days in Shreveport (This ain't happening again)

Posted on 6/20/23 at 12:44 pm to
Posted by AwgustaDawg
CSRA
Member since Jan 2023
7113 posts
Posted on 6/20/23 at 12:44 pm to
quote:

You can get these on Amazon. Just find the correct one for your breaker box. It makes it impossible to have the generator input on while the main is still on.


It only prevents the phase conductors from back feeding the service entrance conductors...the grounding electrode conductor and the neutral are still connected to the grid and may carry the unbalanced load and any ground faults to the utility companies transformer.
Posted by AwgustaDawg
CSRA
Member since Jan 2023
7113 posts
Posted on 6/20/23 at 12:48 pm to
quote:


1000%. I consider myself pretty level headed, but that's a very important part to make sure you don't have a brain fart and electrocute a lineman trying to get you back up and running.


It will not prevent it...it only means that the phase conductors are open...the neutral is a current carrying conductor and will take the unbalanced load to ground along the path of least resistance, ideally, but not always...that path may be back to the utility company's transformer where the lineman, having ensured that the circuit is no energized (no voltage present) will find the current from the unbalanced load indeed present and could be killed. It is not legal in most areas. It is done regularly...been a heap of them installed...but they can expose you to liability.
Posted by Butta
Zachary
Member since Dec 2012
234 posts
Posted on 6/20/23 at 12:51 pm to
I have a Westinghouse 9500, but not a dual fuel. Once a month, I plug two shop fans and two shop lights into the 110v outlets. Let those run 10 minutes. I bought these 30 amp and 50 amp adapter cords to run the same 4 things for 10 minutes in the 30 amp then 10 minutes in the 50 amp. Not a huge load, but keeps it ready to go. I then turn off the fuel line and let the fuel run out.

LINK

LINK
Posted by Clyde Tipton
Planet Earth
Member since Dec 2007
38740 posts
Posted on 6/20/23 at 1:08 pm to
quote:

in my opinion simply dragging cords around is easier, cheaper and prevents issues.


That was my original plan, but I was under the impression the power inlet to the breaker box was "safe".

You're right. It's cheaper and safely isolated to just run extension cords through a window and seal it with a towel.
Posted by 9th Green At 9
From where they make gumbo at
Member since Jul 2015
2928 posts
Posted on 6/20/23 at 1:44 pm to
quote:

An electrician friend of mine said do not backfeed through the dryer plug.
Pussy
Posted by Screaming Viking
Member since Jul 2013
4465 posts
Posted on 6/20/23 at 1:54 pm to
quote:

Now of course you want to be very selective what you turn on after the AC and fridge/freezers. No laundry or pool pumps without turning off the AC breaker. But lights and tv are easily handled with this generator.


i have the same exact generator, and plug as you. during the test run, we ran everything except the microwave. 2 fridge/freezers, dishwasher, lights, 3.5 ton central ac unit. NO MICROWAVE.

this test run was done with the generator running on gasoline. with the natural gas hook-up i now have, i will lose +/-15% of the power. if power is out, but I have fridge/freezer and ac....i will be good.
Posted by ole man
Baton Rouge
Member since Nov 2007
11714 posts
Posted on 6/20/23 at 2:01 pm to
This generator is what I just bough,
50 amp cord and desperate inlet, I have a 5 ton 60.000 btu ac.

This will run my whole house minus a small window unit in my shop, I have 2 refrigerators and one freezer,you won’t be disappointed I would add a soft start to your ac And it’s pretty quiet. Good luck
Posted by mtb010
San Antonio
Member since Sep 2009
4387 posts
Posted on 6/20/23 at 2:08 pm to
So, I have been contemplating on putting solar panels on my house as a primary means of power. Would solar panels have survived the storm that hit your area?
Posted by CHEDBALLZ
South Central LA
Member since Dec 2009
21930 posts
Posted on 6/20/23 at 2:14 pm to
I run 2 window units, 2 refrigerators, 2 freezers all the lights and ceiling fans in my house off a 5500 watt generator. If I were you I'd go a lil bigger and get one that can your central unit. My electrician neighbor said mine could be run with a 12k generator.
Posted by AwgustaDawg
CSRA
Member since Jan 2023
7113 posts
Posted on 6/20/23 at 2:41 pm to
quote:

I have a Westinghouse 9500, but not a dual fuel. Once a month, I plug two shop fans and two shop lights into the 110v outlets. Let those run 10 minutes. I bought these 30 amp and 50 amp adapter cords to run the same 4 things for 10 minutes in the 30 amp then 10 minutes in the 50 amp. Not a huge load, but keeps it ready to go. I then turn off the fuel line and let the fuel run out.


That is more than sufficient for a portable. Full load banks on water cooled commercial and industrial models are required but just some load at temperature is all that is needed for a portable. They are not designed to run 24 -7 for as long as they are needed like a permanent installed genset is.

Anyone with a on board RV generator needs to exercise it as well....save tons of headaches and no small amount of money. Crank it, turn the AC on and run it for 30 minutes a month....those little Onans will last forever if oil is changed and they are exercised...if the sit 2 months you may need a carb LOL.
Posted by AwgustaDawg
CSRA
Member since Jan 2023
7113 posts
Posted on 6/20/23 at 2:52 pm to
quote:

That was my original plan, but I was under the impression the power inlet to the breaker box was "safe".

You're right. It's cheaper and safely isolated to just run extension cords through a window and seal it with a towel.


It is relatively safe compared to a suicide cord or a homeowner temporarily attaching some romex to the dryer breaker and flipping the main off...but there are always issues when a prolonged outage is experienced and line crews get in the area. It can also cause issues with standing water and downed services...the neutral only exists to take current to ground...we are taught that this is always through the path of least resistance...the problem is we do not always know what the resistance is and depending on the pressure current will go wherever it pleases...apply enough voltage to a 2X4 and it will become a current carrying conductor...happens with lightning all the time. Having the unbalaned load discharging into a wet lawn adjacent to a porch and a kid with no shoes on could be tragic. Electrical contractors like this installation because it is easy to do and they can charge a good bit for what is actually involved....adding a manual transfer switch requires redoing the line side of the main and that is much more difficult and costly....the system in the video is seen as a good alternative until something goes wrong and then the homeowner is the one liable...the electrical contractor may be if it gets litiguous enough but they probably ain't got any money that can be detected LOL.

The drop cord solution is not much more trouble than switching breakers...and as a side not breakers are not designed to be used as switches, it will cause them to fail prematurely...and is cheaper....plus you have a couple of 12 gauge drop cords to use when needed for other things.
Posted by AwgustaDawg
CSRA
Member since Jan 2023
7113 posts
Posted on 6/20/23 at 2:59 pm to
quote:

I run 2 window units, 2 refrigerators, 2 freezers all the lights and ceiling fans in my house off a 5500 watt generator. If I were you I'd go a lil bigger and get one that can your central unit. My electrician neighbor said mine could be run with a 12k generator.



Running a central AC off a drop cord can be done but requires some extra work if it is not donw like the video...the easiest way is to lift the wires in the panel (all 4) and wire nut them to some romex and with a male plug or simply push the phas conductors and neutral into the plug...it won't have an equipment grounding conductor but it wouldn't have had one 20 years ago anyway. The other option is to do basically the same thing at the unit in the disconnect. Lift the line side though...all 4 conductors...or your could backfeed to the grid. Make sure the breaker is off when you re-land the line side conductors!!!
Posted by AwgustaDawg
CSRA
Member since Jan 2023
7113 posts
Posted on 6/20/23 at 3:03 pm to
quote:

So, I have been contemplating on putting solar panels on my house as a primary means of power. Would solar panels have survived the storm that hit your area?


If your home is fairly new and has the conveniences of a fairly new home it is doubtful you would have the area on the roof required to run a AC unit...some lights, a TV and maybe a fan, but not at the same time. You would need a storage system which is, in my opinion, problematic although the technology is evolving quickly.

Solar is currently good for reducing your consumption while connected...if and only if the utility is doing what they should and not charging you for production...it is not sufficient as a stand alone system for much of a load for any length of time.
Posted by Clyde Tipton
Planet Earth
Member since Dec 2007
38740 posts
Posted on 6/20/23 at 3:19 pm to
quote:

Having the unbalaned load discharging into a wet lawn adjacent to a porch and a kid with no shoes on could be tragic.


Can you touch on this unbalanced load some more for us?

Are you saying the generator is pumping unregulated power in, but any excess power not being used is discharged into a neutral or ground? Or hooking up the generator on one side of your panel unbalances the load because it was all wired to be balanced (theoretically) to begin with and you've now introduced more power on one side vs. the other?

I want to learn more. I'm confident enough and competent to change light fixtures and outlets, but I always kill the main. I want to understand what's going on inside the box besides my limited knowledge of breakers and why they do what they do.
Posted by bknight00
Member since Aug 2007
445 posts
Posted on 6/20/23 at 3:19 pm to
My BIL has that same generator and it works great. But get the dual fuel version and get a 100 gallon propane tank. It’s to hard looking for gas during a hurricane.
Posted by LSUFootballFANATIC
Way Up North
Member since Feb 2008
1026 posts
Posted on 6/20/23 at 3:24 pm to
I went the same route you did, and priced everything out.

After that, I called a contractor friend of mine and priced out a whole home 20kw Kohler standby generator. Just got off the phone with him ordering the unit. I live just across the river from you too. I'd be happy to share the prices. It will be more expensive than your route, but I think not having to go get fuel for the generator is worth it.

You can run that generator and a few others on natural gas, but you better check the loads from your house. NG lowers to operating power of portable generators significantly. It will effect the things you will be able to run in your house. Just my 2 cents.
Posted by CarRamrod
Spurbury, VT
Member since Dec 2006
57451 posts
Posted on 6/20/23 at 4:03 pm to
quote:

What I am describing is a $1000 generator, $250 in parts to rig it up correctly and a system that runs enough to keep you comfortable with a couple of window units in your bedrooms, have lights, TV and internet and your freezers/refrigerators on.
if your running window units in your room, why have a dedicated power plug?
Posted by Clyde Tipton
Planet Earth
Member since Dec 2007
38740 posts
Posted on 6/20/23 at 4:14 pm to
quote:

if your running window units in your room, why have a dedicated power plug?


To power the lights, fan, and other outlets in the same room since I have a dedicated master bedroom breaker vs. an extension cord with a surge protector and trying to plug everything into one "cord".

ETA: Instead of running an extension cord into the bedroom, another into the living room, and another to the fridge, I can just hook the generator to the breaker box and power all three rooms by flipping 3 breakers.
This post was edited on 6/20/23 at 4:16 pm
Posted by dawg23
Baton Rouge, La
Member since Jul 2011
5065 posts
Posted on 6/20/23 at 4:43 pm to
We've had a standby-generator (Kohler) for 15 years. The longest we went w/o power, i.e. relied on the generator, was 10 days (natural gas).

I firmly believe a homeowner will recoup the price of the generator when/if he sells the home. In the meantime it's a nice feeling to have power automatically provided within 10 seconds of the power outage -- day or night.
Posted by BIG Texan
Texas
Member since Jun 2012
1597 posts
Posted on 6/20/23 at 9:43 pm to
I got the 22w Genractor plus a 250 gal Propane tank installed for $8250. It runs everything except the central heater, AC but not the funnest. I’ve had it for 2 years and have 50% of the propane left in the tank. I’ve been lucky has the longest it’s been running is 2 1/2 days at one time.
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