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Started By
Message
re: Biofuel Growth Is Decimating Wildlife Habitat in Corn Belt
Posted on 3/14/13 at 4:09 pm to ZacAttack
Posted on 3/14/13 at 4:09 pm to ZacAttack
quote:
Renewable energy and biofuels are a crock of shite. They are completely net energy negative.
You are absolutely wrong when you use absolutes like this. Renewables and biofuels CAN BE net negatives, but they can also be net positives IF they are produced/used properly. Installing huge wind farms hundreds of miles from the closest electricity user is not great.
quote:
Biofuels are a waste, I've seen bio-oil, it's really just tar, it won't burn, it has the consistency of burnt motor oil, it's useless, but the government has adopted it asthe newest boondoggle
Not sure what you're talking about here. Bio-oil is a brand name for a scar-treatment oil. Bio-diesel, maybe? Again, it will never be a widespread fuel, but it can be used effectively and has been used effectively. There are also advancements being made in syngas + gas to liquid technology that is starting to show some promise, but the cost is still high.
quote:
The only way to eliminate using fossil fuels is to develop an engine that has the same power and uses some other fuel.
Ethanol and biodiesel already do.... Any horsepower loss is fairly negligible, even when using E85 or E100. We're not going to suddently stop using oil, but it will be good if we can develop alternative fuels that can help us ride out any fuel supply chain disruptions (these happen every 20 years or so).
This post was edited on 3/14/13 at 4:10 pm
2
Posted on 3/14/13 at 4:11 pm to Jester
quote:
Any horsepower loss is fairly negligible
Posted on 3/14/13 at 4:11 pm to jimjackandjose
quote:
The amount of products from fossil fuels is unbelievable. Refining and chemical plants have created a society dependant upon every molecule that is in a fossil fuel.
Wax, milk cartons, plastic, asphalt, rubbers.. you name it, it damn near has a tie to a fossil fuel.
This is why I laugh my arse off every time I see the fool in BR in the Prius with the following on it:
Posted on 3/14/13 at 4:12 pm to Jester
that sticker. Posted on 3/14/13 at 4:12 pm to JAB528
quote:
JAB528
You're typically looking at about 15%. Considering the fact that most of the country boys' trucks are grossly overpowered, you could survive.
ETA - Actually, doing a little bit of reading, ethanol can actual increase horsepower, but the fuel intake must go up, so you get less power per gallon, but the overall power is increased. It requires changes to the engine to increase compression, though.
This post was edited on 3/14/13 at 4:18 pm
Posted on 3/14/13 at 4:14 pm to Jester
Just as a FWIW, brazil has been the most suggesful country in the world at using ethanol to cut their oil consumption. They're still energy-negative by a whole lot.
Posted on 3/14/13 at 4:15 pm to Jester
Under power I would say.
Posted on 3/14/13 at 4:19 pm to GREENHEAD22
I don't remember all the details, but I did TONS of research on crop-derived biofuels a couple years ago.
Bottom line is that we are burning more energy, producing more heat, and producing more emissions than we would be if we were just running regular unleaded.
Pursue natural gas vehicles if you want to cut down on shite. The tech just isn't there yet for anything other than internal combustion engine powered vehicles.
Bottom line is that we are burning more energy, producing more heat, and producing more emissions than we would be if we were just running regular unleaded.
Pursue natural gas vehicles if you want to cut down on shite. The tech just isn't there yet for anything other than internal combustion engine powered vehicles.
Posted on 3/14/13 at 4:19 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
Just as a FWIW, brazil has been the most suggesful country in the world at using ethanol to cut their oil consumption. They're still energy-negative by a whole lot.
Yep, and they actually make it from energy cane, which is supposedly more efficient than corn.
Posted on 3/14/13 at 4:20 pm to Jester
quote:
Pursue natural gas vehicles if you want to cut down on shite
Bingo, answer to the future even though the muslim refuses to think so.
Posted on 3/14/13 at 4:20 pm to Jester
"Energy cane" is just sugar cane and it is drastically higher yielding than corn for ethanol production IIRC.
America is pissing in the wind big time with this biofuel shite.
America is pissing in the wind big time with this biofuel shite.
Posted on 3/14/13 at 4:23 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
Bottom line is that we are burning more energy, producing more heat, and producing more emissions than we would be if we were just running regular unleaded.
There's really not much to support corn-based ethanol except direct subsidies, which is bonk.
quote:
Pursue natural gas vehicles if you want to cut down on shite. The tech just isn't there yet for anything other than internal combustion engine powered vehicles.
CNG is nice and cheap, but natural gas prices have historically been extremely volatile. If we can keep the politicians from building those huge export facilities, we may be able to actually build natural gas reserves to stabilize prices, but that would require them caring about the American people more than themselves. Another issue with CNG is that the fuel tank requires a lot of space. With gasoline, you just need to build something water tight that will hold its own weight. With CNG, they have to build a 4500 PSI pressure cylinder in the back of your car. A cylinder. Find a place for a 10 gallon pressure cylinder in your car. Bye-bye, trunk.
Posted on 3/14/13 at 4:23 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
America is pissing in the wind big time with this biofuel shite.
Couldn't agree more.
Posted on 3/14/13 at 4:24 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
"Energy cane" is just sugar cane
Not exactly. They are very similar, but they are different species with different compositions.
Posted on 3/14/13 at 4:25 pm to Jester
quote:
ep, and they actually make it from energy cane
Which is why cane farmers in LA have been doing so well for the past couple years. Brazil isn't exporting it anymore, so domestic cane sugar went from something like $0.18 to $0.32 per lb or something like that damn near overnight. Don't quote me on those values, but I'm pretty sure it doubled in 2 years.
Posted on 3/14/13 at 4:26 pm to Jester
quote:
issue with CNG is that the fuel tank requires a lot of space
Yea it does, but you also don't have to pump it.
With current tech, the only effective way to depart from gasoline/diesel is CNG.
I hear ya about the political part of it, but I don't like talking about that part because I know not a damn thing about politics. I only know about stuff that makes sense.
Posted on 3/14/13 at 4:26 pm to GREENHEAD22
quote:
Bingo, answer to the future even though the muslim refuses to think so.
Natural gas alone is not the answer. There is no THE answer. We will have to offset use with a variety of fuels. If we start putting too much emphasis on CNG in transportation, the price of natural gas will go up across the board. The car becomes very expensive to drive and your electricity at home is more expensive due to fuel costs.
This post was edited on 3/14/13 at 4:27 pm
Posted on 3/14/13 at 4:28 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
Yea it does, but you also don't have to pump it.
A fuel pump is not a huge energy user and any maintenance reductions from not having one are offset by the regulators needed for CNG injection. Right now, it is the most viable alternative, but it definitely has drawbacks. Reduced horsepower, for one.
Posted on 3/14/13 at 4:37 pm to Jester
quote:
it definitely has drawbacks
Yea it does, like riding around with with a bomb attached to the bottom of your car
quote:
Right now, it is the most viable alternative,
It's pretty much the only viable alternative to gas/diesel at the moment that I'm aware of.
HCCI engines aren't too far away from what I can tell. I think we'll see them available within the next decade.
Electric is a nice thought, but somebody somewhere is burning a frickload of coal to make that power. A VW diesel jetta produces less emissions and uses less fossil fuels than an electric vehicle we're talking coal-fired power plants. The yuppies just love that you can plug it in and nobody has to use any gas or make any stinky greenhouse gases
Posted on 3/14/13 at 4:37 pm to tenfoe
quote:
Which is why cane farmers in LA have been doing so well for the past couple years. Brazil isn't exporting it anymore, so domestic cane sugar went from something like $0.18 to $0.32 per lb or something like that damn near overnight. Don't quote me on those values, but I'm pretty sure it doubled in 2 years.
It basically goes back to the dumbass corn-based ethanol doesn't increase food prices argument. They claim that they aren't using food-grade corn for the production, so the price of food isn't affected. Anyone with their eyes open and mind clear can see the folly of that line of thinking. You are offsetting production, reducing overall production, and increasing cost.
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