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Posted on 5/2/22 at 9:27 am to lsu777
quote:
essentially these kids are being given a corvette and the parents are upgrading the engine every year and not upgrading the brakes.
good travel ball orgs are going to perform some S&C, give a good arm care routine, give a good long toss routine, and encourage you to seek out S&C from a private coach and get private lessons to fix biomechanics.
The same surgery has become more prevelant in the pro game too where the S&C is cutting edge so I don't believe you definitive statement.
Specialization and the move to a power game, both at the plate and mound, have hurt the game and its players.
Posted on 5/2/22 at 9:27 am to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:a lot of things are arguable in life. People have been quitting sports since sports began
Because it's arguable that the overall development of the athlete is worse, injuries are higher, and kids are peaking and burning out at a higher rate.
This post was edited on 5/2/22 at 9:28 am
Posted on 5/2/22 at 9:29 am to Flashback
Yeah, I'd rather my kid sit on the couch watching TV and playing video games...
Side note: Why do you care what parents do with their kids?
My kid club wrestles, it's basically travel ball but wrestling.. He loves it, it really helps develop his body and mind.. Kid is probably in better shape than 97% of the people on this board. I know one he's in better shape than..
Side note: Why do you care what parents do with their kids?
My kid club wrestles, it's basically travel ball but wrestling.. He loves it, it really helps develop his body and mind.. Kid is probably in better shape than 97% of the people on this board. I know one he's in better shape than..
This post was edited on 5/2/22 at 9:33 am
Posted on 5/2/22 at 9:29 am to lsupride87
quote:
Based on what?
ummm go watch and look at exit velo, 60 yard dash times, long toss distance, mound velo, pop times, across the diamond velo, contact quality %, command %
pretty much every metric across the board is better.
quote:
Because it's arguable that the overall development of the athlete is worse, injuries are higher, and kids are peaking and burning out at a higher rate.
based on what?
injuries are up and much of that has to do with what i talked about earlier but also because we are much better at identifying them.
burn out rate is higher based on what?
we can sit here and argue for pages upon pages...but the bottom line is the travel ball model or club model is here to stay. its the same thing that has been used in european soccer, the DR baseball clubs and others in the carribean, and pretty much every where else.
this model has also raised the quality of play across the board.
we agree on many things...but you seem to think the club model is goign to go away...it isnt. and as far as injuries....parents and kids need to educate themselves...hell coaches too. its all there at your fingertips for free.
Posted on 5/2/22 at 9:31 am to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
the move to a power game, both at the plate and mound, have hurt the game and its players.
this we could agree on. but it is what it is. as the batters improved, the pitchers had to improve also.
quote:
The same surgery has become more prevelant in the pro game too where the S&C is cutting edge so I don't believe you definitive statement.
not as much as you would believe. Until lately much of it was old school and it still is very prevelant in the game.
Posted on 5/2/22 at 9:32 am to lsu777
quote:
we agree on many things...but you seem to think the club model is goign to go away...it isnt.
I think it may go away in its current form in baseball specifically because interest in the game is dieing, and I think part of the reason it's dieing is the youth model it's built upon.
The game is killing itself from the inside out, and from someone who played at a high level for nearly two decades and grew up watching it every night it sucks.
Posted on 5/2/22 at 9:36 am to Mingo Was His NameO
Baseball is the #1 sport at my son’s school, based on athlete participation and difficulty of make the teams. I never see club stickers on the parents cars, like I did for soccer. IDK, but I think the travel teams ARE effectively the school team.
Posted on 5/2/22 at 9:37 am to Hangover Haven
quote:
Yeah, I'd rather my kid sit on the couch watching TV and playing video games...
Or worse. They could get caught up in the gender bs
Posted on 5/2/22 at 9:37 am to Gaston
quote:
Baseball is the #1 sport at my son’s school, based on athlete participation and difficulty of make the teams. I never see club stickers on the parents cars, like I did for soccer. IDK, but I think the travel teams ARE effectively the school team.
at the good schools they are
Posted on 5/2/22 at 9:41 am to TWHouston
quote:
A lot of you have know clue about Travel ball. In most cases they are getting way better coaching which will help kids development a benefits your son/daughter and makes them a better player. My son plays for one of the top organizations in Houston and his coach played more than 15 years in the MLB. Most of the people complaining probably never played past Rec ball and don't have a clue and are just pissed their kid sits the bench. Travel Ball isn't for everybody and a lot of the complainers are trying to live their life through their kids because they couldn't make it was past Recreation ball. That's why they have recreation ball. If your one complaining it's time to realize they shouldn't be in travel ball, unless your on a daddy ball team, that's very common in lower divisions. I'm not trying to be an arse, it's just the truth.
First of all, its no.. "you have NO clue".
But I am looking at it from the outside looking in. Not all travel teams have good coaches. I don't care what people spend their money on, I am just curious as to what are parents paying for?
Do they pay for their child to get better? Would you pay for your kid to play on a team coached by a daddy who put his own team together in which he plays his son in a position that another kid on the team can play better?
Then I asked about the money side. If you have 18 teams and lets say its $500 to enter. What does that $9k go to?
There are several parts of it I was just asking questions about. People can spend every nickel they have on it, I don't care. Im more curious as to who is all profiting from it.
Posted on 5/2/22 at 9:41 am to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
I think it may go away in its current form in baseball specifically because interest in the game is dieing, and I think part of the reason it's dieing is the youth model it's built upon.
interest is dieing??? based on what? participation rate? thats because the kids that arent good are getting weeded out earlier. I do agree that is not a good thing as ages 12-14 can be a game changer if the right amount and right tyoe of work is put in but understand this
most good high school programs take 10 per class max. Barbe only took like 6 or 7 last year. The really good kids are not giving up baseball, just the opposite so really it doesnt matter if the participation rate is dropping overall. It is not killing itself. it is weeding out those who cant hack it at an earlier level.
and the club model isnt going away.
Posted on 5/2/22 at 9:45 am to lsu777
quote:
have you even watched tonys quote? at all. he points out that the travel coaches need to be talking about making the kids better people not trying to sell them on winning rings.
if you are with a good team and org....thats exactly what they do.
also tony has been dead a couple years now...and yet he still pretty much only recruited kids that played travel ball.....but hey nothing like a hypocrite right?
I can tell you from experience coaching 5-6 years of travel ball, it's hard to teach the game of baseball and retain kids if you aren't a top team. Parents are the worst. Most would rather their kid be the worst kid on a ring winning team than have their kid learn about competing.
Lazy coaches want all the talent. It's easier to puff your chest out and brag about all your wins when you've got a half dozen 12 year olds that have hit puberty and can simply win on athleticism.
I've seen majors teams superstars not even finish playing in HS and quitting because they had to sit because the HS coach wasn't dealing with their prima donna BS. Or, they make their team and a superstar freshman knocks them out of their starting spot when they're a junior.
Posted on 5/2/22 at 9:45 am to OweO
quote:
Do they pay for their child to get better? Would you pay for your kid to play on a team coached by a daddy who put his own team together in which he plays his son in a position that another kid on the team can play better?
find a better org.
quote:
Then I asked about the money side. If you have 18 teams and lets say its $500 to enter. What does that $9k go to?
that has nothing to do with the team. that is the orginization putting the tournament on. So lets take for example a perfect game tournament at big league dreams.....PG national may take 30% of the overall tournament fee. to rent the facility its prolly another 30%, prolly 20% to workers so left with about 20% for the orginizer of the tournament.
im guessing on numbers because it varys place to place and org to org.
quote:
Im more curious as to who is all profiting from it.
coaches are paid in the better orgs and arent dads.
the facility is making money
the national org is making money
the orginizer of the tournament is making money.
Posted on 5/2/22 at 9:47 am to lsu777
quote:
interest is dieing??? based on what?
Participation is down at the youth level, partially because of what you said, and interest is dieing at the professional level. Tons of kids today want to be Patrick Mahomes or Steph Curry, not Mike Trout.
Couple the fact that teams are built around foreign players, a shite load of people can't watch their local team becuase of the idiotic TV deal, and less kids are interested in general in baseball and there COULD be a real problems arising.
Posted on 5/2/22 at 9:47 am to Cuz413
quote:
I can tell you from experience coaching 5-6 years of travel ball, it's hard to teach the game of baseball and retain kids if you aren't a top team. Parents are the worst. Most would rather their kid be the worst kid on a ring winning team than have their kid learn about competing.
Lazy coaches want all the talent. It's easier to puff your chest out and brag about all your wins when you've got a half dozen 12 year olds that have hit puberty and can simply win on athleticism.
I've seen majors teams superstars not even finish playing in HS and quitting because they had to sit because the HS coach wasn't dealing with their prima donna BS. Or, they make their team and a superstar freshman knocks them out of their starting spot when they're a junior.
oh 100% agree with all of the above.
thats sports though across the board. Saw it when i was in school 20 years ago and its the same way now. Its worse now because of cell phones and social media though for sure. 20 years ago you had to be an adult and speak to the coach in person, now not so much.
Posted on 5/2/22 at 9:51 am to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
Participation is down at the youth level, partially because of what you said, and interest is dieing at the professional level. Tons of kids today want to be Patrick Mahomes or Steph Curry, not Mike Trout.
Couple the fact that teams are built around foreign players, a shite load of people can't watch their local team becuase of the idiotic TV deal, and less kids are interested in general in baseball and there COULD be a real problems arising.
but the % playing sports across the board is down just from ages 8-12. its more of a societal problem of kids being frickign soft and soft arse parents, not because of travel baseball. football participation rate is way way down. and now a days kids have way more sprots to choose from like beach volleyball, soccer, lacrosse, swimming etc..that were not availble in the 80s and 90s or that were only available in small sections of the country.
in fact i would say those participating in travel baseball are bucking the trends of having soft arse kids.
this is what i dont get about you and the rest of the OT...yall bitch about kids not doing shite, not exercising, not playing sports, being fat etc
then turn around and bitch about kids doing the opposite. I dont get it.
FTR kids of affluent families where household income is above 100k participate in orginized sports much more than other demographics.
also baseball is always going to have somewhat of a barrier of entry. it is what it is. parents can do fundraisers etc.
This post was edited on 5/2/22 at 9:56 am
Posted on 5/2/22 at 9:56 am to Gaston
quote:
Baseball is the #1 sport at my son’s school, based on athlete participation and difficulty of make the teams. I never see club stickers on the parents cars, like I did for soccer. IDK, but I think the travel teams ARE effectively the school team.
Baseball and soccer are the two biggest at our high school. From the outside looking in, club baseball seems more toxic than soccer. That may not at all be accurate as neither of my kids are involved in either other than having close friends involved.
Posted on 5/2/22 at 9:58 am to lsu777
quote:
lsu777
Congrats on your son getting a watch and ring by 7th place and wasting all your money.
Posted on 5/2/22 at 9:58 am to lsu777
quote:
but the % playing sports across the board is down just from ages 8-12. its more of a societal problem of kids being frickign soft and soft arse parents,
That's absolutely a factor.
But dismissing the fact that it's become extremely expensive as well doesn't make sense.
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