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re: WSJ: The U.K.’s Healthcare System Is in Crisis; 500 die every week due to treatment delays
Posted on 2/7/23 at 10:15 am to Bronc
Posted on 2/7/23 at 10:15 am to Bronc
quote:'
You understand the reason we have the VA, Social Security, and Medicare is specifically because the "market" failed to provide an acceptable solution
A childs view of history.
Take on guess at how we ended up with the current insurance system tied to your occupation? Just one, no googling.
This post was edited on 2/7/23 at 10:16 am
1
Posted on 2/7/23 at 10:16 am to Bronc
quote:
Just say you don't want minorities and the poor to have benefits, it would be a lot more honest..
Race hustler.
Posted on 2/7/23 at 10:20 am to Bronc
quote:Hard to create a more textbook, and dishonest strawman than this. Impressive.
Just say you don't want minorities and the poor to have benefits
Posted on 2/7/23 at 10:21 am to Damone
quote:
They live in the richest, most advanced society in the history of the world and are so cucked by the concept of THE FREE MARKET! that they can’t comprehend demanding free healthcare in exchange for their compulsory taxes.
We live in the richest, most advanced society in the world and because of the free market everyone has iPhones and cars and people don’t starve to death or die of dysentery or serious illness, they die from heart disease, cancer, respiratory disease, etc mostly caused by smoking/drug use or obesity or old age. Wow what a terrible society we live in when our people die of old age, obesity, and drug use
Posted on 2/7/23 at 10:24 am to Bronc
quote:
The CEOs of America’s seven largest publicly traded health insurance and services companies cumulatively earned more than $283 million in 2021 — by far the most of any year in the past decade.
Cool now do CEOs for comparable size companies. You’ll find the same. CEOs cost a lot of money because they can transfer to almost any industry and still be effective, and they provide more value than any other position in the workforce
Posted on 2/7/23 at 10:27 am to RollTide1987
quote:
People need to start taking responsibility for their own actions. I work a "low wage, long hours" job and still find time to exercise and eat relatively healthy food. As a result...I am not a statistic. Because I am not a statistic, I can go an entire year or more without needing to go to the doctor to get healthcare treatment.
Cool, you are an outlier.
Most people take the path of least resistance in life and if you set up a system that incentivizes and pushes people toward unhealthy living, and does a poor job giving them access to resources to treat it, you will get a lot of unhealthy people.
There is a reason places like Lake Charles, Shreveport, and Baton Rouge, have obesity rates above 70%. And a lot of "blue collar" baws are in that number too..
Posted on 2/7/23 at 10:27 am to Bronc
quote:
My wife's hospital is STILL operating above guidelines for patient/nurse ratios in an acute care unit most days of the week. So simply put, you don't know what the frick you are talking about.
You must be an expert on healthcare because *checks notes* your wife works in a hospital
Ask your wife then if they have too many patients for a unit that size, or if they have too few nurses. It’s too few nurses. There’s a shortage of nurses. Healthcare wouldn’t be overwhelmed otherwise, the US has enough physical capacity for the patients that come in. It’s lack of nurses
Posted on 2/7/23 at 10:28 am to Bronc
quote:
You understand the reason we have the VA, Social Security, and Medicare is specifically because the "market" failed to provide an acceptable solution and people got increasingly pissed off, right?
Wow. Is this a troll post or real life? It's so absurd that it's hard to tell......
My solution requires no additional taxes, no additional regulation, and allows consumers and providers to organize themselves in whatever model best suits them. A completely deregulated model may have a socialized healthcare component (a buyers group or commune type model). I'm sure it'd fail quickly like all those models do, but hey! You be you bro.
Posted on 2/7/23 at 10:31 am to Upperdecker
quote:
Cool now do CEOs for comparable size companies. You’ll find the same. CEOs cost a lot of money because they can transfer to almost any industry and still be effective, and they provide more value than any other position in the workforce
I would love you to explain in detail what "added value" you get from paying an Us health insurance CEO 20 million vs a Switzerland regulated private insurance CEO capped at $350,000?
Especially when private companies in the US have comparatively higher admin costs, charge higher rates, cover fewer people, and the science of the underlying acturarial rate setting doesn't really change.
Posted on 2/7/23 at 10:31 am to Bronc
quote:
And the government subsidies hiding behind your employer plan go away and you see your rates jump through the roof.
Like everyone saw when Obamacare was passed?
Posted on 2/7/23 at 10:35 am to Aubie Spr96
quote:
Wow. Is this a troll post or real life? It's so absurd that it's hard to tell......
This is the part on this board where people like yourself cant directly respond so you resort to labeling things you cant refute as absurd, then doing nothing to offer a detailed outline of the alternative you claim as superior.
quote:
My solution requires no additional taxes, no additional regulation, and allows consumers and providers to organize themselves in whatever model best suits them. A completely deregulated model may have a socialized healthcare component (a buyers group or commune type model). I'm sure it'd fail quickly like all those models do, but hey! You be you bro.
so what magical market mechanism will appear that will fund that injured soldiers 75,000 a year care needs while he struggles to find gainful employment? Or the 75-year-old with a thousands in monthly meds and undergoing cancer treatment?
Come on, give me some details!
Posted on 2/7/23 at 10:43 am to Bronc
quote:
I would love you to explain in detail what "added value" you get from paying an Us health insurance CEO 20 million vs a Switzerland regulated private insurance CEO capped at $350,000?
Zurich, one of the largest health insurers for Switzerland, pays its CEO an equivalent to $13.3 million
LINK
quote:
Zurich Insurance Group’s Mario Greco is in line for a 13.4 million Swiss franc ($13.3 million) payday when shares granted him are unlocked next month, Europe’s fifth-biggest insurer said on Friday.
Now sit down and shut up
Here’s a big list of tons of Swiss health insurance CEOs and executives making in the millions
LINK
This post was edited on 2/7/23 at 10:50 am
Posted on 2/7/23 at 10:45 am to member12
The Tory government that has been in power for the last 12 years have consistently underfunded the NHS. As a result, there is a great shortage of doctors, nurses and social care (nursing home) workers. The shortage of spots in social care homes has caused a logjam in hospitals as patients who normally would be sent to social care after receiving hospital treatment are now taking up hospital beds are there is very little room for new patients. This has affected ambulance services too as paramedics are forced to wait many hours at ERs with patients in their ambulances as there is no room to admit these patients. As a result, people having heart attacks may wait 6 hours for an ambulance to show up. Exacerbating this is Brexit, many medical care staff came from other parts of europe before brexit and that supply line has now been greatly narrowed.
Posted on 2/7/23 at 10:50 am to Upperdecker
quote:
You must be an expert on healthcare because *checks notes* your wife works in a hospital
I've worked on the technical side out of college, so yes, I have experience too.
And its rather amusing to hear people like yourself sitting outside knighting for these bureaucracies that use data analysis and incentivize people within the organization to come up with creative ways to get more money out of the pockets of consumers and keep labor costs minimal.
quote:
There’s a shortage of nurses. Healthcare wouldn’t be overwhelmed otherwise, the US has enough physical capacity for the patients that come in. It’s lack of nurses
And again, why is that? You pay frontline workers like shite cause they want to keep labor costs as low as possible, and then you struggle to obtain/retain employees and the people that pick up the slack get burned out even quicker. Its a vicious cycle brought on by greed and misplaced priorities, and the irony is the places hurt worst are smaller rural areas of the country.
Posted on 2/7/23 at 10:52 am to Zappas Stache
quote:
government that has been in power for the last 12 years have consistently underfunded the NHS. As a result, there is a great shortage of doctors, nurses and social care (nursing home) workers.
So what you’re saying is good doctors and nurses leave public healthcare? Wow what a shocker. Exactly what everyone for private insurance has argued. And before you say it - no we won’t do it differently. See the VA
Posted on 2/7/23 at 10:52 am to Zappas Stache
quote:
have consistently underfunded the NHS.
Good ole politics, why government controlled ______ Is doomed to fail, or become a money pit.
One of the better arguments against government controlled health care is just that, more stability regardless of political administration.
Posted on 2/7/23 at 10:57 am to Bronc
quote:
This is the part on this board where people like yourself cant directly respond so you resort to labeling things you cant refute as absurd, then doing nothing to offer a detailed outline of the alternative you claim as superior.
You mean like your original claim that the market failed somehow and gov't intervened to save the day?
quote:
so what magical market mechanism will appear that will fund that injured soldiers 75,000 a year care needs while he struggles to find gainful employment?
Wounded Warriors or any of the countless non-profits that specialize in that sort of thing and healthcare vouchers from their former employer so they can make their own care decisions.
quote:
Or the 75-year-old with a thousands in monthly meds and undergoing cancer treatment?
Long term care insurance.
Again, forcibly requiring me to pay money for someone else's healthcare in a model that degrades the entire care system is a really poor solution to the problem. Again, I don't have all the answers because A: I'm not a medical expert and B: If there is a need, the market will fill it.
Posted on 2/7/23 at 11:00 am to Bronc
quote:
Most people take the path of least resistance in life and if you set up a system that incentivizes and pushes people toward unhealthy living, and does a poor job giving them access to resources to treat it, you will get a lot of unhealthy people.
The simple solution is to get off the couch and not go to McDonalds three times a week. I don't understand your "access to resources". WTF does that mean? You don't need a doctor.
Posted on 2/7/23 at 11:04 am to Deactived
I kind of wonder what the ramifications would be if obesity was treated the same way as tobacco use when it came to health insurance premiums. Obesity and the corresponding side effects of heart disease seem to pose a staggering burden on the American health care system.
I'm also not sure to what extent this already exists, but it'd be nice if welfare programs could only support buying Coke Zero instead of Coke and healthy breakfast cereals instead of overly sweetened carbohydrate bombs.
We certainly do need to go way further in promoting healthier habits in this nation. Urban planning that supports more walking/bicyling, a societal understanding about what a proper diet/exercise regiment looks like (no more "healthy at any size" nonsense), and hell I'd be fine with lower taxes on healthier food tbh.
I'm also not sure to what extent this already exists, but it'd be nice if welfare programs could only support buying Coke Zero instead of Coke and healthy breakfast cereals instead of overly sweetened carbohydrate bombs.
We certainly do need to go way further in promoting healthier habits in this nation. Urban planning that supports more walking/bicyling, a societal understanding about what a proper diet/exercise regiment looks like (no more "healthy at any size" nonsense), and hell I'd be fine with lower taxes on healthier food tbh.
Posted on 2/7/23 at 11:06 am to Bronc
quote:
And again, why is that? You pay frontline workers like shite cause they want to keep labor costs as low as possible, and then you struggle to obtain/retain employees and the people that pick up the slack get burned out even quicker. Its a vicious cycle brought on by greed and misplaced priorities, and the irony is the places hurt worst are smaller rural areas of the country.
Wrong again! The nursing demand is outgrowing the supply as the boomers age. It’s not people leaving the nursing profession, it’s that the demand for them way exceeds the normal rate of demand and the normal supply of people entering the profession. Salaries are already catching up for nurses
quote:
Median hourly wage rates for contract nurses increased slightly during the pandemic’s first year from $64 in 2019 to $71 in 2020 but shifted further upward to $103 in 2021 and $132 in the beginning of 2022, according to a report from Kaufman Hall.
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