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Message

Would high speed rail ever work in the US?
Posted on 10/14/23 at 10:41 am
Posted on 10/14/23 at 10:41 am
Reading articles today about how the new Amtrack engines can do 125 mph. The new Acelas can do 160, but only run the DC-Boston corridor.
Seems like every other week you read about a Brightline crash. Now the majority are because of idiot drivers. It does point out that the US rail system is designed for low speed freight, not high speed rail.
We have too many road crossings. If you've taken a train in Europe or Asia you notice the high speed rail almost never has road crossings. Always bridges involved.
The US rail system started around 175 years ago and has been constantly built on to. Europe has their system destroyed in wars and rebuilt as part of the rebuilding efforts.
Economically that didn't make sense in the US.
I've taken the Acela from NY to Boston and it was nice to do high speed in the US. I would like to see it expand but just don't think it's feasible.
new Amtrack trains speed limited on old track
brightline crashes
Seems like every other week you read about a Brightline crash. Now the majority are because of idiot drivers. It does point out that the US rail system is designed for low speed freight, not high speed rail.
We have too many road crossings. If you've taken a train in Europe or Asia you notice the high speed rail almost never has road crossings. Always bridges involved.
The US rail system started around 175 years ago and has been constantly built on to. Europe has their system destroyed in wars and rebuilt as part of the rebuilding efforts.
Economically that didn't make sense in the US.
I've taken the Acela from NY to Boston and it was nice to do high speed in the US. I would like to see it expand but just don't think it's feasible.
new Amtrack trains speed limited on old track
quote:
while it’s great that we might finally get a few dozen high-speed trains in America next year, it’s not quite the turning point for this great nation’s train travel. Instead, it’ll be a bit like excitedly buying all the ingredients for delicious brownies, only to get home and realize you don’t have an oven.
quote:
In 2022, the high-speed passenger rail company's trains were involved in 32 fatalities in Broward, Palm Beach and Miami-Dade counties. Brightline was linked to 96 fatalities in the tri-county area between its 2017 founding and June 5, 2023, when the most recent death was documented by DOT.Sep 28, 2023
brightline crashes
This post was edited on 10/14/23 at 10:46 am
Posted on 10/14/23 at 10:55 am to Napoleon
quote:
crash. Now the majority are because of idiot drivers.
This is a real issue.
Outside of a few areas in the northeast, unless some major constructions of new raised rails were built, I don't think it will every be a great option.
It's very much a cost prohibitive.
This post was edited on 10/14/23 at 10:57 am
Posted on 10/14/23 at 10:57 am to Napoleon
The cost of infrastructure, legal disputes, land acquisitions, labor, and maintenance across the fruited plain would be astronomical and take a lifetime to get anything meaningful done.
If it were to work, it would have to be a privately run smaller lines linked together concurrently, similar to O&G pipelines.
If it were to work, it would have to be a privately run smaller lines linked together concurrently, similar to O&G pipelines.
Posted on 10/14/23 at 10:57 am to Napoleon
Will it? No.
Could it, possibly. Would need to be between major centers within 2-3hrs of each other.
Could it, possibly. Would need to be between major centers within 2-3hrs of each other.
Posted on 10/14/23 at 10:59 am to Napoleon
This post was edited on 12/31/23 at 8:34 am
Posted on 10/14/23 at 11:00 am to Napoleon
No massive public works will happen in the USA again with the current regulatory environments and costs of everything.
We priced ourselves out of massive public works for transportation purposes.
We priced ourselves out of massive public works for transportation purposes.
Posted on 10/14/23 at 11:01 am to Napoleon
I don't think it's worth the cost. I believe we'd have to build new, dedicated high speed rail lines to make it work. Country is so spread out, cost so high, I don't think it's a viable option for us.
Posted on 10/14/23 at 11:02 am to Napoleon
Won’t work in this country for a variety of reasons.
Single biggest one is that our geography is not friendly to it given how dispersed population is outside of the Atlantic seaboard, mainly from DC to Boston.
If you are in that area, rail can work because you have short hops to other big cities on dedicated lines.
Trying to do rail in Louisiana? You are running on lines owned by Kansas City Southern and other entities and all the big cities are far apart, so you could almost walk from NOLA to BR in the time it takes to get a train from there since you have to pull to the side of a KCS train needs the line.
On top of that, the actual topography is not necessarily condusive to a lot of these tracks.
You have to have straightaways on either even land or very low grades of steepness.
When you start hitting hills and mountains, you have to curve around them to as flat of land as possible or tunnel through them, neither of which helps your speed.
Single biggest one is that our geography is not friendly to it given how dispersed population is outside of the Atlantic seaboard, mainly from DC to Boston.
If you are in that area, rail can work because you have short hops to other big cities on dedicated lines.
Trying to do rail in Louisiana? You are running on lines owned by Kansas City Southern and other entities and all the big cities are far apart, so you could almost walk from NOLA to BR in the time it takes to get a train from there since you have to pull to the side of a KCS train needs the line.
On top of that, the actual topography is not necessarily condusive to a lot of these tracks.
You have to have straightaways on either even land or very low grades of steepness.
When you start hitting hills and mountains, you have to curve around them to as flat of land as possible or tunnel through them, neither of which helps your speed.
Posted on 10/14/23 at 11:03 am to Napoleon
We are way more spread out than Europe. Also bigger. Small individual lines might make it, but overall it doesn’t make sense.
Going from San Diego to Chicago would be the same as going from Madrid to Kiev. Most people in Europe aren’t taking trains that long.
Going from San Diego to Chicago would be the same as going from Madrid to Kiev. Most people in Europe aren’t taking trains that long.
This post was edited on 10/14/23 at 11:08 am
Posted on 10/14/23 at 11:05 am to Napoleon
(no message)
This post was edited on 3/14/24 at 9:45 am
Posted on 10/14/23 at 11:07 am to BestBanker
quote:
No. It's too expensive to build now. Liken this to creating a new interstate system.
Regulation burdens, pay offs, graft, insurance, etc.
Exactly.
Massive public works projects are largely things of the past.
Posted on 10/14/23 at 11:09 am to Napoleon
It would, if it could be built affordably.
Look at the high speed rail cost in CA.
For one rail from LA to SF, it is estimated to cost $88-128 billion.
It isn’t affordable with how our government projects work.
Look at the high speed rail cost in CA.
For one rail from LA to SF, it is estimated to cost $88-128 billion.
It isn’t affordable with how our government projects work.
This post was edited on 10/14/23 at 11:15 am
Posted on 10/14/23 at 11:11 am to Napoleon
Depends on if politicians can figure out how to line their pockets from it.
Posted on 10/14/23 at 11:12 am to Napoleon
Would only work in the DC to Boston corridor
Posted on 10/14/23 at 11:12 am to teke184
quote:
you could almost walk from NOLA to BR in the time it takes to get a train from there since you have to pull to the side of a KCS train needs the line.
I read or heard somewhere that Passenger Trains have priority over any one else using the lines despite who owns the lines.
Also, the number of stops planned to hopefully get the line profitable also slow down the trains.
So a line between downtown Baton Rouge and New Orleans may have stops in St. George, Gonzales, Laplace, Kenner, and Metairie.
All those stops with current trains would limit your overall speed. The only places the train could reach cruising speed if the track is clear is between Gonzales and Laplace and Laplace and Kenner.
Posted on 10/14/23 at 11:13 am to Napoleon
The short answer is no, at least for the foreseeable future. For better or worse the US is a car culture, one of the strongest in the world, even when we fly some where we have a car waiting for us to drive at our destination.
Despite a lot of younger people accepting and depending on ride share the car culture is still very strong.
Despite a lot of younger people accepting and depending on ride share the car culture is still very strong.
Posted on 10/14/23 at 11:13 am to fightin tigers
quote:
Would need to be between major centers within 2-3hrs of each other.
I would think a dedicated high speed line from Houston to Dallas might happen one day if the federal government could get out the way and let some kind of private partnership handle it.
This post was edited on 10/14/23 at 11:21 am
Posted on 10/14/23 at 11:14 am to Tarps99
My parents decided to take Amtrak from New Orleans to New Mexico at one point.
IIRC, it took them hours just to get from NOLA back to BR where they started and they specifically mentioned having to pull over for other traffic.
IIRC, it took them hours just to get from NOLA back to BR where they started and they specifically mentioned having to pull over for other traffic.
Posted on 10/14/23 at 11:16 am to Napoleon
It would take an Elon Musk type personality to get it done. But it’s possible.
Posted on 10/14/23 at 11:18 am to Napoleon
I don’t necessarily think our current rail infrastructure can handle high-speed trains
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