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Started By
Message
re: Will Smith Murder Trial-Guilty of manslaughter and attempted manslaughter
Posted on 12/7/16 at 9:46 am to Fun Bunch
Posted on 12/7/16 at 9:46 am to Fun Bunch
quote:Look, you are an attorney so you are speaking only in a legal sense
You can't pull out a gun because two guys are talking shite to you.
If I am on a jury, I would deem it perfectly reasonable to retrieve a gun if two angy men approached my vehicle. Especially one with his shirt off acting crazy. Now, I wouldnt deem it reasonable to shoot right away, but simply grabbing the firearm is going to seem ok to many people fun bunch
3
Posted on 12/7/16 at 9:46 am to lsupride87
quote:
the only thing that makes me doubt he did is the fact smith and Hernandez are willing to argue face to face angrily with a man with a gun?
You know he could have gotten out with it concealed in his waistband, right?
Posted on 12/7/16 at 9:46 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
Generally speaking, of course not.
If you LIFE is REASONABLY (hint, reasonableness has an objective, legal standard) in danger, such as what was argued in the Trayvon Martin case, then yes.
There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that Hayes life was reasonably in danger before he mentioned or took out a gun.
Hayes is an extremely large man. If Smith was on top of him pounding him then yes.
That didn't happen.
You can't pull out a gun because two guys are talking shite to you.
you say this but it really doesnt matter because it is up to the jury.
Posted on 12/7/16 at 9:46 am to TigahJay
quote:
If two men were swinging at you (in this scenario), you can't pull a gun out?
Of course not.
ALso there's no evidence that that's what happened.
Posted on 12/7/16 at 9:47 am to lsupride87
quote:
The only thing that makes me doubt he did is the fact smith and Hernandez are willing to argue face to face angrily with a man with a gun?
Yep I agree. I think it went down like this.
Hayes got out with gun in his pocket.
Both groups were arguing.
Smith and Hernandez are drunk and Hernandez is going crazy.
One of them may have swung at Hayes.
Hayes at this point takes out his concealed gun to get them to back off.
Smith then tells Hayes he is going to get his own gun.
This post was edited on 12/7/16 at 9:47 am
Posted on 12/7/16 at 9:47 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
Generally speaking, of course not.
well I have now officially discounted anything you say.
one punch can frick someone up for life. if someone swings on someone else, I don't care if they got shot.
quote:
You can't pull out a gun because two guys are talking shite to you
sure you can. and who are you to decide if someone is scared for their life?
Posted on 12/7/16 at 9:47 am to Mr. Hangover
quote:Of course. But the argument Chad is making is that Hayes visibly had the gun when he first exited the vehicle
You know he could have gotten out with it concealed in his waistband, right?
Posted on 12/7/16 at 9:47 am to diat150
quote:
according to smith wife and this chick they didnt even know anything about a gun till hayes started shooting.
Racquel didn't testify to what Will knew.
Posted on 12/7/16 at 9:48 am to diat150
quote:
you say this but it really doesnt matter because it is up to the jury.
The jury will get the law explained to them in intimate detail. The Judge will instruct them repeatedly on what the law is what the standards are, and explain it to them.
During deliberations, they will ask the Judge for clarifications regarding the law.
Do they have to follow it? No. But generally speaking, juries are pretty good about these things.
I actually was the foreman of a criminal jury once in a relatively high profile case, it was interesting.
Posted on 12/7/16 at 9:48 am to lsupride87
quote:
Look, you are an attorney so you are speaking only in a legal sense
What the hell else do you expect?
quote:
If I am on a jury, I would deem it perfectly reasonable to retrieve a gun if two angy men approached my vehicle.
That's a scary notion. With every post of yours in this thread, I pray I never find myself relying on a jury of people made up of people like you.
Posted on 12/7/16 at 9:48 am to TigahJay
quote:Yep. I think this is what happened to. And if I am on the jury, I honestly dont know what I would vote here.
Yep I agree. I think it went down like this.
Hayes got out with gun in his pocket.
Both groups were arguing.
Smith and Hernandez are drunk and Hernandez is going crazy.
One of them may have swung at Hayes.
Hayes at this point takes out his concealed gun to get them to back off.
Smith then tells Hayes he is going to get his own gun.
Posted on 12/7/16 at 9:49 am to Nado Jenkins83
quote:
if someone swings on someone else, I don't care if they got shot
Nado I'm pretty neutral on this case (at least til more facts come out) so I don't have an ax to grind with you, but this same line of thinking is the exact reason why the country is where it is now... nobody fights anymore, everyone just shoots each other
Posted on 12/7/16 at 9:49 am to Nado Jenkins83
quote:
well I have now officially discounted anything you say.
Ok.
You're wrong though.
Posted on 12/7/16 at 9:49 am to Chad504boy
quote:
Racquel didn't testify to what Will knew.
what? smith wife was within 2 feet of this ordeal. if hayes had a gun in his hand she would have known.
Posted on 12/7/16 at 9:50 am to LNCHBOX
quote:Are you a fricking idiot? I am a scary person because I believe it is reasonable to grab my gun if two men are angrily approaching my vehicle, one of which has his shirt off and is saying nonsense?
That's a scary notion. With every post of yours in this thread, I pray I never find myself relying on a jury of people made up of people like you.
Posted on 12/7/16 at 9:50 am to lsupride87
he ain't hiding a ruger sr45 in his pockets.
Posted on 12/7/16 at 9:51 am to diat150
quote:
what? smith wife was within 2 feet of this ordeal. if hayes had a gun in his hand she would have known.
Racquel didn't testify to what Will knew. Racquel was walking will back to the car probably and admitted she had back to Hayes.
Posted on 12/7/16 at 9:51 am to Chad504boy
quote:Fair enough. So you are of the impression Smith and Hernandez argued toe to toe with a man with a visible brandished gun?
he ain't hiding a ruger sr45 in his pockets.
Posted on 12/7/16 at 9:51 am to lsupride87
quote:
And if I am on the jury, I honestly dont know what I would vote here.
You're crazy.
And the jury will almost certainly get jury instructions that reflect law regarding an "escalator" of the incident (ie the person brandishing a deadly weapon without reasonable fear for their life) becomes the aggressor.
In that scenario you have to convict, especially with the ballistics and forensics being what we think they are.
I need to see something from Hayes' defense that creates a reasonable fear of his life BEFORE he takes out a gun.
Posted on 12/7/16 at 9:52 am to Chad504boy
quote:She said she separated the two men. It seems reasonable that she would have seen Hayes gun if he had it brandished correct?
Racquel didn't testify to what Will knew. Racquel was walking will back to the car probably and admitted she had back to Hayes.
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