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Posted on 5/3/22 at 9:48 am to Dire Wolf
quote:
neither russia or Germany would have the raw materials, notably Oil, to carry a war out with The USA. Russia army looks a hell of a lot different without lend-lease
Would they really need to fight the USA? Would the USA even join in the war at this point?
If the USA is going to fight and have to invade fortress Europe sans eastern front, I really don’t see where or how it would have been possible to. I’m assuming Britain is lost as well by this point so Normandy doesn’t even make sense anymore. It would have to go up through Italy.
Idk. The more I think about it the more I leave the camp of the USA losing and move over to the USA doesn’t even join the war against Germany. Simply goes head long into Japan.
Idk. Time for pots.
Posted on 5/3/22 at 9:49 am to bdavids09
France and Britain didnt get involved with the war until Germany invaded France. They watched as Poland got taken, even had a saying during that time, "Why die for Danzig."
Posted on 5/3/22 at 9:50 am to Hawgnsincebirth55
quote:
if the SS is on the beaches of Normandy the only thing that changes is we bombard them longer, harder, and send in more men. By 1944 the US military was the greatest fighting force ever assembled on this planet.
Okay…. And where do they launch from? If there is no eastern front, Britain gets invaded and goes bye bye. No launch off point anymore.
Posted on 5/3/22 at 9:51 am to TBoy
quote:
The Soviet Union did not invade or bomb them. Next question.
Well neither had Germany yet when they invaded Poland alongside Russia, which is why the OP question is a good one. People like to forget that Russia was trying to carve up Europe as well. Prior to Poland, Russia had also invaded Finland, and signed the non aggression pact with Germany in hopes of positioning themselves to take advantage of carving up Europe’s spoils. They were and are far from our allies, or anyone’s allies. They did and do still have the aspirations to control Europe. After WWII, the Soviet Union was a result of their intentions to control Europe. Putin still hasn’t given up the dream either.
We would do well to know who our enemies are and just why they are our enemies.
Posted on 5/3/22 at 9:52 am to IAmNERD
Winter. It was the winter that stopped the blitz, literally 30 miles outside Moscow. That's how close Hitler was to winning. 30 god damn miles
Posted on 5/3/22 at 9:52 am to Masterag
quote:
without the russians we wouldn't have defeated the germans. the russians gave more lives than anyone.
Maybe, but the real reason the USSR lost so many fighting Germany is that their generals and commanders were idiots and psychopaths, who didn't give a flying frick about the number of soldiers on their side who were killed. The Russian winter is what actually defeated the Germans.
Posted on 5/3/22 at 9:53 am to lsunatchamp
quote:
It was the winter that stopped the blitz, literally 30 miles outside Moscow. That's how close Hitler was to winning. 30 god damn miles
Moscow means nothing. Ask napoleon.
Posted on 5/3/22 at 9:56 am to lsunatchamp
quote:
Winter. It was the winter that stopped the blitz, literally 30 miles outside Moscow. That's how close Hitler was to winning. 30 god damn miles
Winter and Hitler's dumbass insisting he split his army up to take meaningless shite. Had they just went straight for the oilfields as originally planned, they knock the soviets out for good.
Posted on 5/3/22 at 9:57 am to beerJeep
quote:
If there is no eastern front, Britain gets invaded and goes bye bye.
Operation Sea Lion would have never been successful. The Allies ruled the seas. Hitler was hoping for Britain to surrender after France was taken. He never thought Churchill would dig in like he did
Posted on 5/3/22 at 9:59 am to beerJeep
quote:
Also throw in the fact that Britain would have been invaded with operation sea lion without the eastern front.
I don’t disagree with anything you’ve posted aside from this. The idea that Germany could cross the channel with the British navy still intact is silly.
Posted on 5/3/22 at 10:00 am to IAmNERD
I don't know calling Kiev meaningless. They encircled and killed nearly 500,000 men in that operation. Hindsight is 20/20 and it ended up being a bad move only because it delayed them, not because it wasn't successful
Posted on 5/3/22 at 10:01 am to lsunatchamp
quote:
Operation Sea Lion would have never been successful.
The full might of the Germans against the British all alone?
quote:
The Allies ruled the seas.
They don’t need the sea, just the channel.
quote:
Hitler was hoping for Britain to surrender after France was taken. He never thought Churchill would dig in like he did
Churchill, as great of an orator and moral booster he is, wouldn’t have been able to keep moral up and hold out against the entirety of the German might.
Damn I hate the Nazis but.. come on…. Without an eastern front the Battle of Britain definitely ends going the other way.
Posted on 5/3/22 at 10:04 am to troyt37
quote:Not until later. Stalin invaded Finland, the Baltics, and eastern Poland while they still had the non-aggression pact with Germany. Hitler and Stalin had agreed to split Polish territory between them until Germany launched the surprise invasion against the USSR.
Pretty sure they were fighting the Germans, baw.
Posted on 5/3/22 at 10:06 am to Snazzmeister
quote:
The idea that Germany could cross the channel with the British navy still intact is silly.
Y’all are putting wayyyy too much belief in the navy. Way way way way too much.
Entirely too much. I’m talking pre WWI level beliefs in naval power.
The British navy could never hold the channel. Between the uboats, range of land artillery, and the sheer amount of air bases to launch from means the British navy is completely neutralized.
To sail into the channel would mean near certain death. They would regulated to ensuring the supplies from the west are able to reach the island.
Posted on 5/3/22 at 10:08 am to beerJeep
The wildcard in that scenerio is the USA and Japan. If Hitler doesn't invade USSR, it could have ended up by 1942 Japan was at war with Russia and USA never does get involved
Posted on 5/3/22 at 10:10 am to beerJeep
quote:Britain fought alone for over a year. Hitler was no closer to crossing the English Channel when he decided to invade the USSR than he was a year earlier and he lost a ton of his air power trying to attack Britain. The Battle of Britain was resounding victory for the Brits. Their use of radar crippled the German luftwaffe and the german navy never had any chance against the Royal Navy. And in truth roosevelt would’ve never let England fall into the hands of the nazis we would declare war if Churchill ever thought all hope is lost. So yes we would have a launch point
And where do they launch from? If there is no eastern front, Britain gets invaded and goes bye bye. No launch off point anymore.
Posted on 5/3/22 at 10:20 am to Hawgnsincebirth55
quote:
Britain fought alone for over a year. Hitler was no closer to crossing the English Channel when he decided to invade the USSR
1 year is 1 year. The 2nd is far harder than the first. The 3rd harder still.
Time wasn’t on the Brit’s side.
quote:
Their use of radar crippled the German luftwaffe
Facts.
quote:
german navy never had any chance against the Royal Navy
AirPower was the new dog on the block.
Jutland killed naval warfare in terms of big naval ship on ship battles.
quote:
And in truth roosevelt would’ve never let England fall into the hands of the nazis we would declare war if Churchill ever thought all hope is lost.
Would he? I’m not sure.
quote:
So yes we would have a launch point
Via Sicily up through Italy.
Posted on 5/3/22 at 10:22 am to bdavids09
Treaty obligations between those 3 countries. Not Russia.
Posted on 5/3/22 at 10:28 am to bdavids09
The enemy of my enemy is my friend!
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