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Posted on 3/15/18 at 12:57 pm to AUCE05
[quote]Pure capitalism would have the top .01% owning 90% of the assets in this country. Unions level the playing field for the rest of us, even indirectly. Some of you need to read the history of our country, and the safety and financial barriers the wealthy imposed on us.
So the guy who defended larry Nassar also is a union lackey.
So the guy who defended larry Nassar also is a union lackey.
This post was edited on 3/15/18 at 12:58 pm
Posted on 3/15/18 at 1:01 pm to Displaced
quote:
They are bad in today's environment. They were necessary 100 years ago, but have outlived their useflness and have evolved into a monster completely different than their original purpose.
I understand your argument. I just don't agree with it. Everything I've seen convinces me that in the real world, without at least the viable threat of unions, things would be a lot worse for a lot of working class people.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 2:11 pm to Bert Macklin FBI
quote:I'm a member of the CWA union (Communication Workers of America). It's basically a political organization at this point. No real tangible benefits to its members. They do broker disputes with management for us, and they basically set the national pay scale for our line of work. They've managed to keep the company paying for benefits, annual wage increases, etc. Mainly, they've managed to keep the company away from using subcontractors rather than employees.
And how did they get so out of hand?
At day's end, I'm a reluctant member. I'm a free market capitalist at heart, and I think the market should decide what goods and services are worth. That works fine until the employer is an international Fortune 100 company, and the worker is an expendable contractor. At that point, the company holds a disproportionate advantage, and the workers should be allowed to band together for collective bargaining power. IMHO.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 2:16 pm to Bert Macklin FBI
quote:
Why are Unions still a thing?
To provide massive amounts of money to fund political campaigns for the Democratic Party and to lobby Congress and state legislators to create more government jobs with better retirement and health benefits.
Public sector unions basically get to elect and lobby their bosses to give them more members with other peoples' money.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 2:18 pm to Methuselah
quote:
without at least the viable threat of unions, things would be a lot worse for a lot of working class people.
In general, unions stifle upward mobility. They protect the least, and hurt the ambitious.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 2:26 pm to AUCE05
quote:Negative. The top 0.1% can only become that powerful when they have a government they can buy and force to make laws in their favor. If government didn't exist then the top 01.% wouldn't be nearly as powerful.
Pure capitalism would have the top .01% owning 90% of the assets in this country.
But keep begging for a larger and more powerful government to protect you. It's worked out great so far.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 2:30 pm to FCP
quote:
No real tangible benefits to its members. They do broker disputes with management for us, and they basically set the national pay scale for our line of work. They've managed to keep the company paying for benefits, annual wage increases, etc. Mainly, they've managed to keep the company away from using subcontractors rather than employees.
I'd say those are some pretty substantial tangible benfits. That 80% of American workers would love to have. (Random percentage, let's assume it substantial.)
There are cons to them as well. However I don't believe the idea that without them all the workers would be so much happier. Haven't we seen time and time again that the company will cut you at the drop of a hat to show a better number on a quarterly report?
I grew up believing the Fox News unions are bad schtick. Then I experienced the real world and how you're basically a number on a spreadsheet in a lot of cases. Not all, but a lot.
Edit to add I agree with the poster earlier about the wage stagnation. Company will pay you as little as they think they can get away with.
This post was edited on 3/15/18 at 2:51 pm
Posted on 3/15/18 at 2:40 pm to Bert Macklin FBI
Big business does not give a flying frick about the little man. It’s all about the bottom line and the shareholders. I work for the railroad. It’s tons of rules. You’ll be surprised the type shite the company will try to fire people for. No matter how hard working you are a company will fire you to protect themselves, so they won’t look liable in certain situations.
The union has many of my brethren from being fired unjust. The union has its faults, but let’s not act like these companies care about the common man. It’s all about making the most money possible for us and them.
The union has many of my brethren from being fired unjust. The union has its faults, but let’s not act like these companies care about the common man. It’s all about making the most money possible for us and them.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 2:42 pm to EarlyCuyler3
quote:
I grew up believing the Fox News unions are bad schtick.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 2:43 pm to LSUintheNW
quote:
Falling asleep, at the 2 mills I've worked in, was a big no no and will get you fired after a couple of times.
That anyone would ever think it's okay for someone to fall asleep in a work environment as dangerous as a mill even once screams volumes.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 2:43 pm to AUCE05
quote:
Pure capitalism would have the top .01% owning 90% of the assets in this country
Totally wrong.
Goes to show how few people actually understand economic systems.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 2:46 pm to Bert Macklin FBI
frick a union. I'll never pay a man for a job.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 2:46 pm to TigerstuckinMS
quote:
That anyone would ever think it's okay for someone to fall asleep in a work environment as dangerous as a mill even once screams volumes.
If a union is strong enough, it's no big deal.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 2:51 pm to IgotKINGfisherSpeed
A company should be able to fire you for whatever reason it wants to
Posted on 3/15/18 at 2:54 pm to AUCE05
quote:
The O&G barrens lay everyone off when oil drops below 70$ a barrel, and they could give two shits if any of them die.
so they are obligated to give people jobs? who are you to judge if their margins are high enough
Posted on 3/15/18 at 2:58 pm to IgotKINGfisherSpeed
quote:
but let’s not act like these companies care about the common man. It’s all about making the most money possible for us and them.
Correct, and that's how it should be. You provide a service, they provide a paycheck. If you don't like it, find something else.
When you hire someone to do work, do you pay as much as possible or go with the lowest price you can for the best work?
Posted on 3/15/18 at 2:58 pm to AUCE05
quote:
Pure capitalism would have the top .01% owning 90% of the assets in this country. Unions level the playing field for the rest of us, even indirectly. Some of you need to read the history of our country, and the safety and financial barriers the wealthy imposed on us.
Actually, really pure capitalism would be more like the Serengeti plains or the amazon jungle or, heck, any ecosystem, even mico ones. The strong would survive and the weak would die either through starvation, being killed, etc.
One thing I've always wondered about people who preach pure capitalism: Do you consider the entity of the corporation to be an anti capitalistic creation? It is an artificial construct of government and it limits liability through an artificial method (law).
Posted on 3/15/18 at 2:59 pm to Methuselah
quote:
Do you consider the entity of the corporation to be an anti capitalistic creation?
Yes
Posted on 3/15/18 at 2:59 pm to RogerTheShrubber
Possible poor choice of words to include Fox News. I don't wake up and watch CNN. I don't watch any news at all because it's all slanted one way or another. I was just trying to demonstrate I grew up thinking this way but changed my mind.
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