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re: Where would you have rather been a soldier: Stalingrad or Verdun?
Posted on 1/6/18 at 11:52 am to D Tide
Posted on 1/6/18 at 11:52 am to D Tide
quote:
having 20 more years of medical technology.
Because the ruskies totally cares about Ivans gunshot wound...
Or are you talking about being in the German 6th? Because that's definitely not the side you want to be on in stalingrad
0
Posted on 1/6/18 at 11:54 am to BruceJender
quote:
Could someone point me in the direction of something good that goes into details of how bad Stalingrad was?
Ghosts of the Ostfront
Posted on 1/6/18 at 11:55 am to fr33manator
Were the Russian bone fields a myth or not?
Posted on 1/6/18 at 11:57 am to 19
The volgograd bone fields are widely seen as myth as no tangible evidence for their existence has been found outside of word of mouth.
I do, however, believe that they once existed, but time and weather along with Ivans desire to cover it up (like everything else Ivan covers up) means that they have been buried/destroyed for decades.
I do, however, believe that they once existed, but time and weather along with Ivans desire to cover it up (like everything else Ivan covers up) means that they have been buried/destroyed for decades.
Posted on 1/6/18 at 12:03 pm to BruceJender
quote:
Could someone point me in the direction of something good that goes into details of how bad Stalingrad was?
Stalingrad - Anthony beever
Forsaken Army - Heinrich Gerlach (rare first hand account from a German who wrote it on scraps of paper in Russian captivity. Remember, only roughly 5k out of the 250k+ German 6th made it back to Germany)
Enemy at the gates
Posted on 1/6/18 at 12:04 pm to 19
There are less and less now as reinternment happens and the land is reclaimed, but yes. The bone fields are real.
Posted on 1/6/18 at 12:07 pm to fr33manator
Pretty sure the bottom picture is from the Ukraine after a recent excavation . And I've definitely seen the top picture before. It was taken in the 40s.
The bone fields don't exist anymore. And haven't for many many years.
The bone fields don't exist anymore. And haven't for many many years.
This post was edited on 1/6/18 at 12:08 pm
Posted on 1/6/18 at 12:13 pm to beerJeep
You don’t think mass graves still exist just under the surface? The bodies had to go somewhere
Posted on 1/6/18 at 12:17 pm to fr33manator
I absolutely believe they were buried in mass Graves during the 50s and 60s.
But the bodies being in a mass grave under the surface =\= a bone field anymore.
We're the volgograd bone fields a reality? Absolutely in the 40s. But Ivan absolutely buried them and they are no longer just bones on the surface as far as you can see.
If they were still on the surface as some still claim, we would have real tangible current evidence of this. There would be some enterprising young Ivan who has weekly tours with a website with pictures etc.
But the bodies being in a mass grave under the surface =\= a bone field anymore.
We're the volgograd bone fields a reality? Absolutely in the 40s. But Ivan absolutely buried them and they are no longer just bones on the surface as far as you can see.
If they were still on the surface as some still claim, we would have real tangible current evidence of this. There would be some enterprising young Ivan who has weekly tours with a website with pictures etc.
Posted on 1/6/18 at 12:23 pm to bamagreycoat
quote:
If I’m in the Red Army I’d rather be at the battle of Stalingrad all day.
I'd love to hear your explanation.
You realize the Soviets suffered more casualties than the Germans, right?
Posted on 1/6/18 at 12:26 pm to ChewyDante
True.. but the Germans lost 99.9999999% of their force in the fight.
Id take my chances as a ruskie in stalingrad over the chance of being one of 5,000 germans who survived out of over 250,000.
Id take my chances as a ruskie in stalingrad over the chance of being one of 5,000 germans who survived out of over 250,000.
Posted on 1/6/18 at 12:29 pm to beerJeep
quote:
True.. but the Germans lost 99.9999999% of their force in the fight.
Id take my chances as a ruskie in stalingrad over the chance of being one of 5,000 germans who survived out of over 250,000.
No, I get that. But he makes it sound like being in the Red Army at Stalingrad is easily a better choice than Verdun.
Obviously given that we know the history it makes selecting the Germans at Stalingrad an impossible option, but prior to the encirclement I'd rather be a German at Stalingrad than a Red.
Posted on 1/6/18 at 1:02 pm to PhilemonThomas
quote:
Verdun and not even close. At least the British Army gave some what of a frick if it’s soldiers survived.
Come on, dude.
The British Army at Verdun?
No. Verdun was a German offensive against the French sector.
Posted on 1/6/18 at 1:31 pm to RollTide1987
umm russians shot their own soldiers if they "thought" they didnt fight hard enough or wouldnt charge head on into machine guns so .......
Posted on 1/6/18 at 1:35 pm to RollTide1987
I'd rather be a soldier wherever I can stay warm at HQ.
Posted on 1/6/18 at 1:40 pm to fr33manator
quote:
Verdun. At least if you survived you had a chance to rotate out.
Yeah, it’s a no-brainer which is really, really saying something given that Verdun and the Somme were largely the basis for Mordor itself.
Listen to this eyewitness account from Stalingrad:
quote:
The street is no longer measured by meters but by corpses…Stalingrad is no longer a town. By day it is an enormous cloud of burning, blinding smoke; it is a vast furnace lit by the reflection of the flames. And when night arrives, one of those scorching, howling, bleeding nights, the dogs plunge into the Volga and swim desperately to gain the other bank. The nights of Stalingrad are a terror for them. Animals flee this hell; the hardest stones cannot bear it for long; only men endure.
Posted on 1/6/18 at 1:45 pm to BruceJender
quote:There's a recent Netflix documentary on it. Or maybe it's on WWII in general, but one of the episodes I watched took a deep dive on Stalingrad.
Could someone point me in the direction of something good that goes into details of how bad Stalingrad was?
Posted on 1/6/18 at 1:58 pm to beerJeep
Oh of course they don’t exist like that today.
But I meant that they were real and their remnants can still be found today sometimes when weather unearths bones and farmers plow up fields to reveal skeletons.
But I meant that they were real and their remnants can still be found today sometimes when weather unearths bones and farmers plow up fields to reveal skeletons.
Posted on 1/6/18 at 2:17 pm to fr33manator
While I think I agree that Stalingrad would have been worse, I'll play devil's advocate.
First, "rotating out" (speaking about Verdun here) was almost a curse. Artillery fire made the actual act of relieving or being relieved extremely difficult and often deadly. Plenty of troops that were supposed to be relieved were stuck where they were and never actually got relieved.
Second, and likely more pertinent (surprised nobody has brought this up), is that poison gas was still being used at Verdun. Hitler would not allow the Germans to use gas at Stalingrad (or anywhere, really, he hated it). This is a HUGE scale tipper for me, as that's probably the worst way to go in either of these wars.
First, "rotating out" (speaking about Verdun here) was almost a curse. Artillery fire made the actual act of relieving or being relieved extremely difficult and often deadly. Plenty of troops that were supposed to be relieved were stuck where they were and never actually got relieved.
Second, and likely more pertinent (surprised nobody has brought this up), is that poison gas was still being used at Verdun. Hitler would not allow the Germans to use gas at Stalingrad (or anywhere, really, he hated it). This is a HUGE scale tipper for me, as that's probably the worst way to go in either of these wars.
Posted on 1/6/18 at 2:33 pm to Fe_Mike
quote:
is that poison gas was still being used at Verdun.
The use of poison gas at this time was typically chlorine and phosgene gas, with mustard coming after verdun.
Chlorine gas was easily dealt with by the time verdun came around and the only real usage of phosgene gas was at the onset when the Germans used it against French artillery.
Overall though, gas played a very small part in verdun and didn't really have any tangible effect one way or another.
Also, due to prevailing winds, the French gas was typically more effective than the German gas.
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