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Started By
Message
re: When did cops go from protect and serve to comply or die?
Posted on 3/28/16 at 12:35 pm to NYNolaguy1
Posted on 3/28/16 at 12:35 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:
Believe it or not, sometimes the answer is not more prisons, more law enforcement, or more laws.
Did I say it was? It's insane the amount of people that are in jail that absolutely shouldn't be. My comment was more so in response to the people who think we don't need police and talk crap about the entire profession as a whole, without applying a LITTLE common sense and realizing that for every scumbag on the force you read about in the news, there's hundreds more out there not in the news who go about their day and do their job and go about their business.
quote:
I don't doubt the need for police. They serve a valuable role.
gotcha.
quote:
I just think the "comply or die" mentality is not the best for serving the community.
I agree that some police, as with ANY profession on earth, are power abusers and should suffer serious consequences. But like I mentioned earlier America seems to heavily shape their percpetion on the few stories they see in the news and in tabloids without realizing that those douchebags are the extreme minority.
2
Posted on 3/28/16 at 12:35 pm to TJGator1215
But, the police enforce the law. The buck stops with them on the ground. I have never understood how anyone would think they wouldn't comply with the police. Just don't be a jackwagon and you probably won't get in trouble, tazed, shot, or killed. I mean, you threaten a police officer when you don't comply. I have no problem with these pieces of shite that think they're above the law and decide they know better than the police getting what's ultimately coming to them.
I also fully admit that the police aren't 100% right in their actions. Then again, I'm the kind of citizen that stays out of trouble.
I also fully admit that the police aren't 100% right in their actions. Then again, I'm the kind of citizen that stays out of trouble.
This post was edited on 3/28/16 at 12:36 pm
Posted on 3/28/16 at 12:35 pm to WG_Dawg
quote:
When dealing with law enforcement, even if you're 100% innocent of everything, do as they ask, don't be confrontational or try to argue, and your situaitno will turn out far better than it would if you try to "keep it real" or get some youtube footage
This is a symptom of the problem.
Innocent citizens should not have to resist the urge to defend their rights when confronted with confrontational meathead police just because it will keep them out of jail. It's the smarter thing to do, yes; but the fact that you have to relinquish your right to defend your rights as an innocent civilian to stay out of jail is absurd.
Posted on 3/28/16 at 12:36 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:
Would you consent to a search of you home/car/office if confronted by them? Or does you standing up for your rights get squashed by their directives?
and the reason for that search would be?
Posted on 3/28/16 at 12:36 pm to PenguinNinja
quote:Hold on, if they are innocent what is the reason for non-compliance?
Innocent citizens should not have to resist the urge to defend their rights when confronted with confrontational meathead police just because it will keep them out of jail.
Posted on 3/28/16 at 12:36 pm to RogerTheShrubber
I can speak for Georgia, in that the police academies, recognizing the problems, are teaching Community Oriented Policing, which encourages officers to get out of the car and interact with the public in a positive way. In the area I work we have an area check code with a "P" identifier that means just that, PR work. Hopefully it continues and change becomes evident. One difficulty departments face is the overwhelming need for people and the lack of quality applicants. It is hard to compete with industry to hire and keep quality people at the pay rates available to police departments.
Posted on 3/28/16 at 12:37 pm to WG_Dawg
quote:
99 times out of 100, at a routine traffic pullover for a simple speeding violation it's going to be a pretty routine situation.
So like so many other things in this country, we establish policy according to the lowest common denominator, and frick the other 99%!
Cops are human, and so they abuse that policy. Now they are being proven to abuse that policy (cell phone videos) and are getting completely bent out of shape that they are (rarely) being help accountable for basically being assholes (or worse, murderers) under the guise of self preservation and department policy.
And they wonder why their PR has taken a downturn?
This post was edited on 3/28/16 at 12:40 pm
Posted on 3/28/16 at 12:37 pm to PenguinNinja
quote:
This is a symptom of the problem.
Innocent citizens should not have to resist the urge to defend their rights when confronted with confrontational meathead police just because it will keep them out of jail. It's the smarter thing to do, yes; but the fact that you have to relinquish your right to defend your rights as an innocent civilian to stay out of jail is absurd.
We've got a generation of people who have grown up under the Patriot Act and the War on Drugs. This is the new normal for them.
Posted on 3/28/16 at 12:38 pm to PenguinNinja
quote:
Innocent citizens should not have to resist the urge to defend their rights when confronted with confrontational meathead police just because it will keep them out of jail. It's the smarter thing to do, yes; but the fact that you have to relinquish your right to defend your rights as an innocent civilian to stay out of jail is absurd.
Yep. The "Have you ever been arrested" question is still prominent on a job applications, right?
This post was edited on 3/28/16 at 12:39 pm
Posted on 3/28/16 at 12:38 pm to WG_Dawg
quote:
I'm very curious what they'd do when their house is being robbed, their family kidnapped, their kids raped, etc
Nothing you have listed is likely to be prevented or stopped by the existence of the police. The police will possibly find your killer, kidnapper, or rapist, after you have become a victim. When seconds count the police are only a half hour or so away.
Posted on 3/28/16 at 12:38 pm to PenguinNinja
quote:
This is a symptom of the problem.
Innocent citizens should not have to resist the urge to defend their rights when confronted with confrontational meathead police just because it will keep them out of jail.
I like how you generalize all police as meatheads
You're not looking at it from both sides. Sure as a citizen it's inconvenient to be hassled if you've done nothing wrong. But if an officer has a tip or description or whatever and is now in a situatino with you, he has NO IDEA if you're innocent or you have a warrant out on you for murder.
It's far easier to just answer their questions, say who you are, and be polite and most of the time you're on your way in 5 minutes.
quote:
the fact that you have to relinquish your right to defend your rights as an innocent civilian to stay out of jail is absurd.
Can you give an example of what you're talking about? Not invalidating your opinion I just want a more specific example of what you mean with citizens relinquising rights.
Posted on 3/28/16 at 12:40 pm to MSMHater
When all of the little punks and thugs lost respect for others; authority, elders, belongings, etc.
Posted on 3/28/16 at 12:41 pm to MSMHater
quote:
So like so many other things in this country, we establish policy according to the lowest common denominator, and frick the other 99%.
The 1% of SJWs who want to use the opposite bathroom is a bit different than the 1% of times that someone's head is blown off at a routine traffic stop. These aren't quite the same thing.
quote:
Cops are human, and so they abuse that policy.
How many cops do you know? Do you just base your opinion on news stories? YOu seem to make sweeping generalizations without acknowleding (as I've already said) that some cops are complete buffoons drunk on power while the overwhelming majority are not. It's like an offensive lineman...if you dont' hear their name called it's generally a good thing. The police out there that do their job as it's intended don't make the news.
Posted on 3/28/16 at 12:44 pm to EA6B
quote:
Nothing you have listed is likely to be prevented or stopped by the existence of the police. The police will possibly find your killer, kidnapper, or rapist, after you have become a victim
So no criminal has ever been a repeat offender?
You don't think police finding and capturing murders, rapists, robbers, thieves, etc and locking them up has EVER prevented future crimes?
Posted on 3/28/16 at 12:44 pm to MSMHater
quote:
The "Have you ever been arrested" question is still prominent on a job applications, right?
I've never seen that on an application, only "have you ever been convicted of a felony".
Posted on 3/28/16 at 12:45 pm to The Sad Banana
quote:
Hold on, if they are innocent what is the reason for non-compliance?
Depends on what we mean by non-compliance.
If an officer, in a reasonable tone of voice for a thus far unthreatened servant of the public, asks me to do something reasonable and complies with my request to explain the nature of his reasonable request, then a citizen should comply.
If the same officer talks to an innocent civilian like a piece of trash and then insists on me letting him search the car when the citizen has done nothing wrong at all, he can frick off back to the station without a warrant. And that citizen telling him that in response to his shite approach to the situation should absolutely not in and of itself result in th citizen's arrest.
Posted on 3/28/16 at 12:46 pm to MSMHater
quote:
So like so many other things in this country, we establish policy according to the lowest common denominator, and frick the other 99%!
are you retarded?
What do you think all of the safety precautions people do at plants are for? all the tests and certifications you have to get, permits, LOTO, etc. It's so not a single person dies.
One death is not acceptable. That is a common practice everywhere in this country, but you think b/c you don't want to be inconvenienced, we'll let a cop get shot in the face on a routine traffic stop every now and then?
Posted on 3/28/16 at 12:46 pm to tipup
quote:
When all of the little punks and thugs lost respect for others;
quote:
authority
I love this one.
A 24 year old high school graduate with a badge should immediately, and without question, be considered an authority figure and respected when addressing the senior citizen/military vet/corporate executive that had the audacity to question the moving violation being issued.
So dumb. That badge doesn't make him any smarter, more competent of the law, or less of a douchebag. Respect is earned, not given.
Posted on 3/28/16 at 12:47 pm to WG_Dawg
quote:
agree that some police, as with ANY profession on earth, are power abusers and should suffer serious consequences. But like I mentioned earlier America seems to heavily shape their percpetion on the few stories they see in the news and in tabloids without realizing that those douchebags are the extreme minority.
I think it creates a perception that police are above the law. This is partially because of the structure of the justice system. Morale declines when DA's start prosecuting the people they rely on (LEO) to get convictions, but people get angry when abuse goes unpunished.
So what happens? A DA brings in an alleged abuse case to a grand jury where all testimony is secret, then throws the case, or doesn't present any evidence at all. Because it's secret no one will ever know. That way the DA can protect his officers from any charges, and the DA in turn gets his convictions. It's the perfect scheme to use grand juries as cover to protect bad officers.
That might account for the number of cases often in single digits brought against LEO per state every year.
Posted on 3/28/16 at 12:47 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:
Would you consent to a search of you home/car/office if confronted by them? Or does you standing up for your rights get squashed by their directives?
Just because some idiot in a car heading in your direction wants to play chicken do you take the chance in today's society?
I would articulate my objections and rights...but at the end of the day if I were dealing with an unreasonable moron with a gun...I would choose to meet him in court where my rights would trump his moronity. That is where the odds are staked in my favor, if using your argument, that you are right and they are wrong.
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