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What are your thoughts regarding laws against price gouging during states of emergency?
Posted on 10/9/24 at 9:07 am
Posted on 10/9/24 at 9:07 am
While it's a despicable act in many cases, it is capitalism in a pretty pure form and supply and demand economics. Happening a lot in Florida as we speak.
While morally repugnant to do so for the wrong reasons, should it be the government's place to price-regulate?
More of a philosophical discussion that was happening in my office this morning and I thought it to be pretty intriguing.
LINK
While morally repugnant to do so for the wrong reasons, should it be the government's place to price-regulate?
More of a philosophical discussion that was happening in my office this morning and I thought it to be pretty intriguing.
LINK
quote:
Florida’s Office of The Attorney General has received more than 200 complaints about price gouging as residents evacuate. Most of the complaints are about the price of fuel and water, and the top three areas of concern are Pinellas, Hillsborough and Highlands counties, Kylie Mason, spokesperson for the state’s attorney general said.
Other callers are reporting the prices of overnight accommodations, including an Airbnb listing for a “room in Tallahassee” priced at nearly $6,000 per night.
The Tampa area had the most reports of price gouging during Hurricane Helene, 10 Tampa Bay reported, and the state is deciding to crack down during Milton.
Excessive increases in the price of essential items such as food, water, gasoline, lumber, hotel rooms and safety equipment are against the law during a storm-related state of emergency. Citizens are encouraged to report instances of suspected price gouging to Florida’s Price Gouging Hotline.
This post was edited on 10/9/24 at 10:35 am
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Posted on 10/9/24 at 9:11 am to CatfishJohn
Depends
Gouging on things necessary for survival is obviously fricked up (water, food staples)
Other things not so much and that includes gas imo. You dont need gas to survive
Gouging on things necessary for survival is obviously fricked up (water, food staples)
Other things not so much and that includes gas imo. You dont need gas to survive
Posted on 10/9/24 at 9:13 am to CatfishJohn
There's an argument to be made that price gouging actually can help more evenly distribute resources.
Charging 20 bucks for a bottle of water could mean that several people buy the minimum they need/can afford, whereas if they were still a dollar a pop or something one person may come in and just buy the whole lot and now only one person has all the water to themselves.
Charging 20 bucks for a bottle of water could mean that several people buy the minimum they need/can afford, whereas if they were still a dollar a pop or something one person may come in and just buy the whole lot and now only one person has all the water to themselves.
Posted on 10/9/24 at 9:13 am to Cosmo
quote:
Gouging on things necessary for survival is obviously fricked up (water, food staples)
Definitely fricked up. No question.
But is it the government's place to tell a private, small business what they can charge for goods? (Assuming no collusion around price fixing)
Posted on 10/9/24 at 9:13 am to Cosmo
quote:
You dont need gas to survive
You do if you’re evacuating and videos were posted yesterday of small places doing it
Posted on 10/9/24 at 9:14 am to CatfishJohn
quote:
should it be the government's place to price-regulate?
I'd say in general, government price regulations do significantly more harm than good and frick up traditional supply/demand market factors in a capitalistic society.
Posted on 10/9/24 at 9:15 am to JohnnyKilroy
quote:
Charging 20 bucks for a bottle of water could mean that several people buy the minimum they need/can afford, whereas if they were still a dollar a pop or something one person may come in and just buy the whole lot and now only one person has all the water to themselves.
So you limit it per person. You don't jack the price up
Posted on 10/9/24 at 9:16 am to fr33manator
quote:
So you limit it per person. You don't jack the price up
This would be the most moral route and the route I would take. But should the low prices be forced by the government?
Posted on 10/9/24 at 9:16 am to Proximo
quote:
You do if you’re evacuating and videos were posted yesterday of small places doing it
I was thinking more of after the storm but yes
Posted on 10/9/24 at 9:17 am to CatfishJohn
The laws are dumb and should be illegal.
During emergencies, the cost of transporting and providing items is way more expensive, along with more safety risks, etc.
If people can't make more money, they just won't provide the items.
It's counter-productive.
During emergencies, the cost of transporting and providing items is way more expensive, along with more safety risks, etc.
If people can't make more money, they just won't provide the items.
It's counter-productive.
Posted on 10/9/24 at 9:18 am to CatfishJohn
Fuel and lodging are probably the ones that get away with it even when not in states of emergency. I would be fine with some regulations there, like you can't increase over a certain percentage of your standard price. If you run a hotel and charge $100 a night for a standard room, you shouldn't be trying to get $300-400 a night all of a sudden because of evacuations nearby. I'm fine with fuel costs going up as well, but what would be more effective is rationing. At the end of the day, if I lived in an area where a Hurricane was coming, and it cost me twice as much to fill up, I wouldn't care at all. Small price to pay to get to a safer area. I'd have more worries back at home if it survived the storm. But I would be alive to worry about it. If you limited it to something like 10 gallons per customer, you can still have evacuations going on and give customers enough to get to the next station, and you can increase your price 50% or something along those lines. You're still making more money, still giving people a need, and can help more people this way than jacking up fuel prices 200% and running out in hours, possibly leaving tons of people stranded.
Posted on 10/9/24 at 9:18 am to fr33manator
quote:
So you limit it per person. You don't jack the price up
Limits can easily be subverted. Prices can't.
I'm not saying price gouging is inherently good or moral or anything. And perhaps using water was not a very good example, but I view 5 people being able to get what they need at a higher price as being better than one person buying up the whole supply because it's "cheap" given the circumstances.
Posted on 10/9/24 at 9:18 am to fr33manator
Too many ways around that. Send every family member in to buy one. Go to the next store, rinse repeat.Pay people to buy for you.
I'll add a reply to a different post for a longer explanation of another factor - a buy limit doesn't help motivate refilling the supply chain. More later.
I'll add a reply to a different post for a longer explanation of another factor - a buy limit doesn't help motivate refilling the supply chain. More later.
Posted on 10/9/24 at 9:19 am to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
The laws are dumb and should be illegal.
During emergencies, the cost of transporting and providing items is way more expensive, along with more safety risks, etc.
If people can't make more money, they just won't provide the items.
It's counter-productive.
This is an angle I hadn't thought of. The logistics of providing the products are significantly harder and more dangerous. Makes sense if framed like this that prices should be higher.
These laws would be a really interesting Supreme Court challenge.
Posted on 10/9/24 at 9:19 am to MidWestGuy
quote:
a buy limit doesn't help motivate refilling the supply chain
Exactly. The government should stay out of it.
Posted on 10/9/24 at 9:20 am to CatfishJohn
There’s nuances to it. Wholesale prices go through the roof in the aftermath of a storm due to limited supply and increased shipping costs. If you’re charging outrageous prices for things you got before the storm then, yeah, that’s a shitty move. But if you’re charging normal markup on supplies that cost 5x more in the wake of a storm, then I don’t have a problem with it.
Posted on 10/9/24 at 9:20 am to TU Rob
quote:
If you run a hotel and charge $100 a night for a standard room, you shouldn't be trying to get $300-400 a night all of a sudden because of evacuations nearby.
Shouldn't from a moral perspective, maybe. But should that be against the law? What if every room is booked at that higher rate?
Posted on 10/9/24 at 9:23 am to CatfishJohn
I see it a little bit less when talking about things like lodging, because there is no reason an individual needs more than one bed/room.
If I'm evacuating my house to a hotel or whatever, even if the rooms are a dollar a night, I'm not going to book more than one room for myself.
Whereas if food/gas/water is still normal price, I may be more inclined to buy as much as I can physically handle due to uncertainty of the situation, leaving others without an opportunity to get those resources.
If I'm evacuating my house to a hotel or whatever, even if the rooms are a dollar a night, I'm not going to book more than one room for myself.
Whereas if food/gas/water is still normal price, I may be more inclined to buy as much as I can physically handle due to uncertainty of the situation, leaving others without an opportunity to get those resources.
Posted on 10/9/24 at 9:24 am to upgrayedd
quote:
If you’re charging outrageous prices for things you got before the storm then, yeah, that’s a shitty move
Replenishment costs are a major factor in distribution sales and pricing.
If I have widget X in my inventory at a $10 moving average cost, but the replacement will be $15. Then I would be a fool to sell it at $15, even though that would be a good profit margin. I should sell it as if my cost was $15.
This is how stores in emergencies should think.
Posted on 10/9/24 at 9:24 am to CatfishJohn
quote:
These laws would be a really interesting Supreme Court challenge.
What would be the basis of the challenge?
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