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re: Were Axis powers doomed to fail ?
Posted on 11/27/19 at 6:14 pm to Boo Krewe
Posted on 11/27/19 at 6:14 pm to Boo Krewe
Confidence in Churchill's leadership falters and his government falls, resulting in an armistice. Without British resistance, Mussolini's Balkan campaign is a success, allowing Operation Barbarossa to start six weeks earlier, as originally planned, with fresh reinforcements from the Western Front. Without the Royal Navy, resupply convoys cant get through to Russia. Moscow falls in early December, and Hitler makes a Christmas Day radio address from the Kremlin. Stalin is assassinated by a rival while on the run, and what's left of the Soviet Union falls into civil war. Germany leisurely consolidates its new eastern territories.
Meanwhile in the Pacific, the Pearl Harbor raid catches the US carriers in port. America's rage is volcanic, but there's little they can do but watch as Japan rolls up the far east. Australia falls, and an independence movement friendly to Japan takes over India.
By spring of 1942 America stands very much alone.
Meanwhile in the Pacific, the Pearl Harbor raid catches the US carriers in port. America's rage is volcanic, but there's little they can do but watch as Japan rolls up the far east. Australia falls, and an independence movement friendly to Japan takes over India.
By spring of 1942 America stands very much alone.
2
Posted on 11/27/19 at 6:29 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:that when Superman shows up
By spring of 1942 America stands very much alone.
Posted on 11/27/19 at 6:29 pm to Boo Krewe
yes, because God was not on their side.
Posted on 11/27/19 at 6:36 pm to SoFla Tideroller
quote:considering America copied tank, gun and aircraft technology from the Germans post world war 2 I'm calling bullshite.
The American Army of late '44/'45 was superior to anything that the Germans fielded
The MG-42 was way ahead of it's time for example.
Germans have always been the best engineer's in the world. And it showed considering how much arse they whipped with so little numbers.
Posted on 11/27/19 at 6:45 pm to TT9
They were good designers. Processes and standardization, not so much. Tanks were still assembled piecemeal by craftsmen instead of on assembly lines, and every weapons system had a bewildering array of sub-variants. The Wehrmacht rode into battle in large measure on the back of the Czech arms industry. Without it, they would have been in deep trouble.
Posted on 11/28/19 at 1:48 am to SoFla Tideroller
I disagree. It was superior to what America faced on the western front. The best German units were on the eastern front trying to hold off the Soviet hordes. If Germany hadn't engaged in a 2 front war we would have faced their best troops and it would have been much harder. Their tanks were much better than what we produced. We just churned out so many lesser tanks like the Shermans. We had the huge advantage of being able to produce equipment at full capacity without being bombed unlike the Germans.
Posted on 11/28/19 at 4:20 am to Dawgholio
quote:
The Soviets had an early agreement not to war with Germany early in the war. Hitler screwed that up
Whether Hitler attacked the reds or waited until the reds got strong enough to attack him, that was going to happen. Hitler’s loss was inevitable when he lost the Battle of Britain. Had he conquered Britain he could have closed that front and sued for peace. I doubt he would have survived. The US would have fought him in North Africa and the Soviets in the east. He would have fallen eventually, but maybe it would have taken atom bombs on Berlin and Munich.
Posted on 11/28/19 at 5:57 am to Boo Krewe
If Hitler would’ve just been satisfied with re-occupying the Rhineland and annexing Austria/Czechoslovakia, he would have been fine.
Posted on 11/28/19 at 6:15 am to Boo Krewe
Yes
Posted on 11/28/19 at 6:32 am to Jim Rockford
Can you imagine how much different the world would be today if that scenario had played out?
Posted on 11/28/19 at 6:45 am to Tangineck
Japan's only hope would have been to take on the mantle of liberators instead of oppressors in their Asiatic conquests. If they would have treated their conquests better -"we have come to throw off the yoke of white oppression" - they might have been able to cultivate some allies in the fight against Britain and the USA. But their racial arrogance and militarism was never going to let that happen.
I still think Germany's big missed opportunity was the French fleet and ports in southern France. If they could choke off the Med at Gibralter, the North African campaign is over (Malta falls) quickly. That secures Egyptian oil which takes the emphasis off the Caucusus in the East. It also keeps Italy as a much more viable ally and reduces the need for as many resources diverted to the Balkans.
I still think Germany's big missed opportunity was the French fleet and ports in southern France. If they could choke off the Med at Gibralter, the North African campaign is over (Malta falls) quickly. That secures Egyptian oil which takes the emphasis off the Caucusus in the East. It also keeps Italy as a much more viable ally and reduces the need for as many resources diverted to the Balkans.
Posted on 11/28/19 at 6:56 am to Boo Krewe
No.
Posted on 11/28/19 at 7:54 am to Carl Tuckerson
quote:
They were doomed from the Treaty of Versailles.
I would not go that far
Had they pressed at Dunkirk and subdued the UK while consolidated their gains things may have played out very differently.
Posted on 11/28/19 at 8:50 am to Boo Krewe
There was nobody else but us with the capacity to build shite like we did.
like this from the Liberty ships article:
The class was developed to meet British orders for transports to replace ships that had been lost. Eighteen American shipyards built 2,710 Liberty ships between 1941 and 1945 (an average of three ships every two days), easily the largest number of ships ever produced to a single design.
looked like this:
2710 of them
like this from the Liberty ships article:
The class was developed to meet British orders for transports to replace ships that had been lost. Eighteen American shipyards built 2,710 Liberty ships between 1941 and 1945 (an average of three ships every two days), easily the largest number of ships ever produced to a single design.
looked like this:
2710 of them
Posted on 11/28/19 at 9:14 am to Boo Krewe
Doomed to fail?
No.
Several things COULD have altered outcome.
GERMANY
-British Army fails to escape Dunkirk.
-Mussolini doesn’t get Hitler side tracked in the Balkans to keep the UK out of Greece. Extra month to capture Moscow before winter.
-Hitler could have encouraged the western portions of the USSR, like the Ukraine, to fight against Stalin. More front line troops and less partisans in the rear. Use them now, screw them later strategy.
JAPAN
-Instead of Midway, continue to take Port Morseby. Fight the decisive carrier battle without American surprise, and isolate Australia.
-Win Midway. McClusky doesn’t follow destroyer to the Japanese carriers. Only one sunk in the American first blow. 3 carriers hit back instead of 1. Or Lt. Dick Best doesn’t peal off after Akagi. 2 carriers punch back instead of 1.
- Delaying the war would increase the chances of American resolve (always a problem in ever war America has fought) failing. This was a major concern of American planners up until the a-bomb surrender.
No.
Several things COULD have altered outcome.
GERMANY
-British Army fails to escape Dunkirk.
-Mussolini doesn’t get Hitler side tracked in the Balkans to keep the UK out of Greece. Extra month to capture Moscow before winter.
-Hitler could have encouraged the western portions of the USSR, like the Ukraine, to fight against Stalin. More front line troops and less partisans in the rear. Use them now, screw them later strategy.
JAPAN
-Instead of Midway, continue to take Port Morseby. Fight the decisive carrier battle without American surprise, and isolate Australia.
-Win Midway. McClusky doesn’t follow destroyer to the Japanese carriers. Only one sunk in the American first blow. 3 carriers hit back instead of 1. Or Lt. Dick Best doesn’t peal off after Akagi. 2 carriers punch back instead of 1.
- Delaying the war would increase the chances of American resolve (always a problem in ever war America has fought) failing. This was a major concern of American planners up until the a-bomb surrender.
Posted on 11/28/19 at 9:18 am to Boo Krewe
The Axis failed for one reason.
It was a conventional war and we could out produce them.
We could shoot theirs down faster than they could build them. We could build ours faster than they could shoot them down.
In a conventional war he who can produce the most weapons and men always wins. Same reason the North won the Civil War. Even though the South won a lot of major battles. They just could not match the North's production capabilities.
Arms and supplies are everything in a conventional war.
It was a conventional war and we could out produce them.
We could shoot theirs down faster than they could build them. We could build ours faster than they could shoot them down.
In a conventional war he who can produce the most weapons and men always wins. Same reason the North won the Civil War. Even though the South won a lot of major battles. They just could not match the North's production capabilities.
Arms and supplies are everything in a conventional war.
Posted on 11/28/19 at 9:46 am to hankiba
quote:
Who would have thought that Roosevelt, Stalin, and Churchill would be able to cooperate better than Hitler and Hirohito?
Well, Roosevelt was essentially a communist so him getting along with Stalin is very understandable.
Posted on 11/28/19 at 9:51 am to TT9
quote:
Yes, Hitler had the best military in history.
That’s a bit of a stretch don’t ya think?
The German army that went to war in 1914 was better than Hitler’s.
No, this is not me claiming that the German army of WWI would beat the German army of WWII. But in its day, it was without a doubt the best military on the planet.
This post was edited on 11/28/19 at 10:12 am
Posted on 11/28/19 at 9:53 am to Dawgholio
quote:
Hitler’s arrogance and flat out craziness to open up 2 fronts destroyed any chance they had.
This.
His arrogance is that only reason that nukes weren’t dropped on Europe.
Posted on 11/28/19 at 10:07 am to Boo Krewe
Definitely. Their leadership was tremendously suspect.
If Hitler could've kept it in his pants another 10 years and started the war with jet planes and nuclear weapons, game over.
Instead Hitler and his ego shot his wad too soon and was used and spread thin by Mussolini. Adolph was an idiot in addition to being an evil pos.
If Hitler could've kept it in his pants another 10 years and started the war with jet planes and nuclear weapons, game over.
Instead Hitler and his ego shot his wad too soon and was used and spread thin by Mussolini. Adolph was an idiot in addition to being an evil pos.
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