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Message
re: Watch Thread; New Seiko Turtle Review
Posted on 10/19/16 at 11:23 am to Broke
Posted on 10/19/16 at 11:23 am to Broke
The parts that are outsourced by Lange (if any), AP, JLC, etc. are negligible. I would count all those brands as "in-house," even if they use Nivarox hairsprings - especially some of the indy's, like Dufour, Kari Voutilainen, etc., who make everything except for maybe one or two minor, inexpensive parts - and finish most of them by hand.
The issue is somewhat more complicated (and silly) though. Most watch brands (except Rolex and Patek and AP) are owned by either Swatch or Richemont. Swatch owns Nivarox (who is the primary maker of hairsprings - the other is owned by Citizen). If Nivarox, a Swatch company, supplies a hairspring to Breguet, also a Swatch company, is it still "in-house"? What if Renaud et Papi, who is owned by AP, supplies a movement to AP?
I think the better way to look at the in-house issue is the extent to which the movement is finished, and the design of the watch - especially when you are talking about high-end watches. I would take a vintage Patek with a lemania perp cal chrono movement over the overpriced abortion of a watch they currently sell that is 100% in-house. The watch industry has typically purchased outsourced movements. The idea that a watch should be made in-house is a new phenomena, likely driven by the proliferation of eta movements.
The issue is somewhat more complicated (and silly) though. Most watch brands (except Rolex and Patek and AP) are owned by either Swatch or Richemont. Swatch owns Nivarox (who is the primary maker of hairsprings - the other is owned by Citizen). If Nivarox, a Swatch company, supplies a hairspring to Breguet, also a Swatch company, is it still "in-house"? What if Renaud et Papi, who is owned by AP, supplies a movement to AP?
I think the better way to look at the in-house issue is the extent to which the movement is finished, and the design of the watch - especially when you are talking about high-end watches. I would take a vintage Patek with a lemania perp cal chrono movement over the overpriced abortion of a watch they currently sell that is 100% in-house. The watch industry has typically purchased outsourced movements. The idea that a watch should be made in-house is a new phenomena, likely driven by the proliferation of eta movements.
2
Posted on 10/19/16 at 11:26 am to MemphisGrizzliesFan
quote:
The parts that are outsourced by Lange (if any), AP, JLC, etc. are negligible. I would count all those brands as "in-house," even if they use Nivarox hairsprings - especially some of the indy's, like Dufour, Kari Voutilainen, etc., who make everything except for maybe one or two minor, inexpensive parts - and finish most of them by hand.
The issue is somewhat more complicated (and silly) though. Most watch brands (except Rolex and Patek and AP) are owned by either Swatch or Richemont. Swatch owns Nivarox (who is the primary maker of hairsprings - the other is owned by Citizen). If Nivarox, a Swatch company, supplies a hairspring to Breguet, also a Swatch company, is it still "in-house"? What if Renaud et Papi, who is owned by AP, supplies a movement to AP?
I think the better way to look at the in-house issue is the extent to which the movement is finished, and the design of the watch - especially when you are talking about high-end watches. I would take a vintage Patek with a lemania perp cal chrono movement over the overpriced abortion of a watch they currently sell that is 100% in-house. The watch industry has typically purchased outsourced movements. The idea that a watch should be made in-house is a new phenomena, likely driven by the proliferation of eta movements.
Who are you? I've finally met my fricking nemesis.
Posted on 10/19/16 at 11:28 am to MemphisGrizzliesFan
quote:
The idea that a watch should be made in-house is a new phenomena, likely driven by the proliferation of eta movements.
I think it was the acquisition of ETA that threw the entire damn industry into a tailspin wondering where the hell they were going to get movements from. So in house blew up within the next few years.
Posted on 10/19/16 at 11:31 am to LSU alum wannabe
quote:
What is the max depth any human can dive with the most advanced equipment?
Recreational divers are limited to 130'. Beyond that, dives are considered technical and require much more training and gear.
LINK
One Egyptian diver recently ventured a bit deeper — going more than 1,000 feet below the ocean surface and setting a world record in the process.
It took Gabr 12 minutes to reach the record depth and the rest of the day to return to the surface, according to the Associated Press, which reported that Gabr dove into the sea on Thursday morning and surfaced after midnight.
“I traveled with nine tanks and decompressed for 14 hours [on the way back up],”
Posted on 10/19/16 at 11:41 am to Broke
I think it is definitely a conflation of several factors. I think the acquisition of ETA is certainly a part of the equation. I also think the proliferation of Swatch, Richemont, and other watch conglomerates threw things out of whack.
The quartz crises killed a lot of movement producers. The ones that survived were, by and large, acquired by the conglomerates, to make movements "in-house" for other brands. For example, Montblanc purchased Minerva, and Minerva, in turn, makes movements for Montblanc's Villeret line. JLC supplied movements to Patek, Vacheron, AP, etc., before it was acquired by Richemont. Swatch purchased Lemania, who produces movements for Breguet. AP purchased Renaud et Papi, etc.
I love watches, but the whole industry is pretty wild.
The quartz crises killed a lot of movement producers. The ones that survived were, by and large, acquired by the conglomerates, to make movements "in-house" for other brands. For example, Montblanc purchased Minerva, and Minerva, in turn, makes movements for Montblanc's Villeret line. JLC supplied movements to Patek, Vacheron, AP, etc., before it was acquired by Richemont. Swatch purchased Lemania, who produces movements for Breguet. AP purchased Renaud et Papi, etc.
I love watches, but the whole industry is pretty wild.
This post was edited on 10/19/16 at 11:42 am
Posted on 10/19/16 at 11:44 am to MemphisGrizzliesFan
quote:
I love watches, but the whole industry is pretty wild.
I co-own this watch forum. We are the old moderators of Watchuseek:
IWL
This post was edited on 10/19/16 at 11:45 am
Posted on 10/19/16 at 12:25 pm to Broke
quote:
co-own this watch forum. We are the old moderators of Watchuseek:
Can I join?
First post... "Where can you get the best Rolex replicas?"
Posted on 10/19/16 at 12:53 pm to LSU alum wannabe
Absolutely.
Posted on 10/19/16 at 1:08 pm to Broke
At the very least, I will lurk. Been out of the watch game for a couple years (saving for Lange), but I have the site bookmarked 
Posted on 10/19/16 at 1:21 pm to MemphisGrizzliesFan
quote:
At the very least, I will lurk. Been out of the watch game for a couple years (saving for Lange), but I have the site bookmarked
Roger that. Proceed however you want. Just wanted to introduce you to our deal. I don't buy too many now. Saving for weddings, college, retirement, etc.
Posted on 10/19/16 at 1:53 pm to Broke
Broke-
I mean their lineup and components are 100% in-house, not just one in-house movement. Most, if not all, of those the brands listed make watches that definitely use outsourced movements (e.g. ETA) or components (springs, o rings, bracelets, etc.) are outsourced. I am pretty sure the Richemont owned brands (A. Lange & Sohne, VC) outsource, share inter-brand, and/or retool stock movements. I put a question out on timezone.com to see if any of the gurus there have an expert opinion on the present state.
I mean their lineup and components are 100% in-house, not just one in-house movement. Most, if not all, of those the brands listed make watches that definitely use outsourced movements (e.g. ETA) or components (springs, o rings, bracelets, etc.) are outsourced. I am pretty sure the Richemont owned brands (A. Lange & Sohne, VC) outsource, share inter-brand, and/or retool stock movements. I put a question out on timezone.com to see if any of the gurus there have an expert opinion on the present state.
Posted on 10/19/16 at 1:59 pm to King Teal
quote:
Is this just a regular Seiko diver?
Yes 007x
Posted on 10/19/16 at 2:09 pm to G Khan
Just read MemphisGrizzliesFan's posts. He knows his stuff...
I haven't bought or sold for a couple of years now and my collection remains at 6 (all sport/dive watches).
Would love a fine dress watch & a chrono, but they have all gotten very, very expensive since I started w/ it in 2003. Weak dollar over that time period did not help US buyers.
I haven't bought or sold for a couple of years now and my collection remains at 6 (all sport/dive watches).
Would love a fine dress watch & a chrono, but they have all gotten very, very expensive since I started w/ it in 2003. Weak dollar over that time period did not help US buyers.
Posted on 10/19/16 at 2:30 pm to G Khan
Seiko "Emperor Tunacan"...not the best pics
Seiko 007x
Seiko 007x
This post was edited on 10/19/16 at 2:37 pm
Posted on 10/19/16 at 3:01 pm to G Khan
quote:
Just read MemphisGrizzliesFan's posts. He knows his stuff...
Yeah, he may be more up to date on watches than I am. I'll pass the torch as the OT watch guru.
Posted on 10/19/16 at 3:43 pm to jamalsdeck
I like the Emp. Tuna. Always wanted a Tuna. However, I prefer the SBBN017 over the SBBN033. So I will have to watch the forums.
In any event, I have been out of the game for a couple years. Went ahead and registered on your forum, Broke. I was big on WUS, TZ, and other fora back in the day, but temptation is too strong kicking around those parts. At this point, I am happy with what I have, although I have an urge still for a Lange - probably the new Saxonia 37mm - or a FP Journe - specifically the Chrono Bleu (gorgeous). I would love a Patek, but other than the 5227, their new designs don't speak to me. Plus, they are way out of my price range. Would like to add a current-lineup to the stable at some point, but I am happy with my Pepsi.
I see the pendulum swinging back towards the consumer. Prices have been outrageous the last five years or so (maybe ten years at this point). However, I think over the next five years or so, we are going to see a return to relative normalcy. I doubt anyone will pick up a Patek perpetual calendar anytime soon for $10-15k as you could back in the early oughts, but with China slowing down, I think there will be more reasonable options. It is amazing, a Panerai in early 2000s cost about $1,200 - now it has skyrocketed to $6,000.
In any event, I have been out of the game for a couple years. Went ahead and registered on your forum, Broke. I was big on WUS, TZ, and other fora back in the day, but temptation is too strong kicking around those parts. At this point, I am happy with what I have, although I have an urge still for a Lange - probably the new Saxonia 37mm - or a FP Journe - specifically the Chrono Bleu (gorgeous). I would love a Patek, but other than the 5227, their new designs don't speak to me. Plus, they are way out of my price range. Would like to add a current-lineup to the stable at some point, but I am happy with my Pepsi.
I see the pendulum swinging back towards the consumer. Prices have been outrageous the last five years or so (maybe ten years at this point). However, I think over the next five years or so, we are going to see a return to relative normalcy. I doubt anyone will pick up a Patek perpetual calendar anytime soon for $10-15k as you could back in the early oughts, but with China slowing down, I think there will be more reasonable options. It is amazing, a Panerai in early 2000s cost about $1,200 - now it has skyrocketed to $6,000.
Posted on 10/19/16 at 4:25 pm to MemphisGrizzliesFan
quote:
Went ahead and registered on your forum, Broke. I was big on WUS, TZ, and other fora back in the day, but temptation is too strong kicking around those parts.
I understand. There is always something there that sparks my interest. When WUS sold out to Verticalscope we all left and started our forum. I wasn't mod'ing for a fricking company. And I wanted a clean no advertising forum.
Posted on 10/19/16 at 5:54 pm to King Teal
That is a solid watch. I am about to get the turtle or the Pepsi diver Seiko. Also thinking of getting the Vostok Amphibian.
Posted on 10/19/16 at 6:31 pm to G Khan
quote:
Seiko automatics (i.e. "poor man's Rolex") are bullet proof, high quality, made 100% "in house" (Rolex & Patek are the only others that can claim that I believe...maybe AP) & undoubtedly the best bang for your buck on the market.
Although Orient is owned at least partially by Seiko I believe, if you talk "in house" and quality, I'll throw in affordable to, then you can't leave Orient out.
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