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re: Was the allies winning WW 2 inevitable?
Posted on 1/19/17 at 9:57 pm to Jim Rockford
Posted on 1/19/17 at 9:57 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:
Hitler wasnt obligated to help Japan but he couldnt.blatantly take sides against them. He needed the threat of a Japanese attack in the Far East to tie down Russian troops.
Easy way around that. Have his people in Tokyo tell the Japanese leadership to ignore his public statements.
0
Posted on 1/19/17 at 10:04 pm to OMLandshark
The Japanese were getting their asses kicked toward the end of the war. Conventional bombing of the mainland would have ensued had the bombs not been dropped.
Posted on 1/19/17 at 10:17 pm to Reservoir dawg
When Hitler divided Poland with the Russians that extra distance he had to invade kept him from making it to Moscow by the winter of 1941. He stalled 30 miles out of Moscow.
This post was edited on 1/19/17 at 10:18 pm
Posted on 1/19/17 at 10:31 pm to athenslife101
No, Axis could've easily won had Germany focused on taking out Britain and left the Soviet Union alone...at least until Britain was out of the war so the Germans weren't fighting on 2 fronts at the same time. And also if Hitler had managed to convince Japan to attack the Soviet Union from the south and east instead of attacking the US. Without Pearl Harbor, the US entry into the war would've been significantly later and there's a good chance US would've stayed out completely since by the time they would've been able to muster public support for entering, the Axis would've already either won the war or been in a strong enough position to deter the US from getting involved
Posted on 1/19/17 at 10:36 pm to athenslife101
The Germans should have started Barbarossa (Russian campaign) a month earlier. The weather was good enough to conduct operations. The extra time should have allowed them to reach Moscow before winter. Alternatively they could have ignored the Russian army in Ukraine and pushed to take Moscow. Because of its logistical value (all roads and rails from the East came through Moscow), and industrial center, losing Moscow would have made effective Russian action almost impossible.
The Japanese had a more difficult challenge. However until Midway they held an advantage with a larger carrier force. (Even after Midway they continued attacking in the South Pacific.) The only chance they had was to sink the 3 American carriers. It would have then taken time for the US to mount a new carrier force. If the Japanese had been able to maintain carrier superiority, they could have advanced southward all the way to Australia, perhaps offering a truce to forestall further American efforts.
The Japanese had a more difficult challenge. However until Midway they held an advantage with a larger carrier force. (Even after Midway they continued attacking in the South Pacific.) The only chance they had was to sink the 3 American carriers. It would have then taken time for the US to mount a new carrier force. If the Japanese had been able to maintain carrier superiority, they could have advanced southward all the way to Australia, perhaps offering a truce to forestall further American efforts.
Posted on 1/19/17 at 10:44 pm to Tiger Prawn
Japan had to attack the United States.
They needed the oil in the U.S. owned Philippines. S.E. Russia did not have developed oil fields at the time.
They needed the oil in the U.S. owned Philippines. S.E. Russia did not have developed oil fields at the time.
Posted on 1/19/17 at 10:52 pm to athenslife101
quote:
Was the allies winning WW 2 inevitable?
Not even close. The Germans were within a count hair of having the Brits call for a cease fire.
If Hitler does not attack Russia, they could have held the allies to a stale mate and controlled most is not all of Europe.
Posted on 1/19/17 at 10:54 pm to Tigertracks
quote:
The Germans should have started Barbarossa (Russian campaign) a month earlier. The weather was good enough to conduct operations. The extra time should have allowed them to reach Moscow before winter. Alternatively they could have ignored the Russian army in Ukraine and pushed to take Moscow. Because of its logistical value (all roads and rails from the East came through Moscow), and industrial center, losing Moscow would have made effective Russian action almost impossible.
The distraction of the Caucasus definitely contributed greatly to Germany not being able to take Moscow. That would have allowed the Germans to hold up in Moscow for the winter and avoid that long slog homeward. Who knows where it would have gone from there.
Posted on 1/19/17 at 10:58 pm to LSUTigersVCURams
quote:
In Europe at least, I don't think the Allies won WW2 as much as Nazi Germany lost it. Had Hitler left the military tactics to his generals and not gotten completely loaded on meth after '42, they'd probably be speaking German in Moscow and Paris right now. But that was the problem with the entire Nazi system. When you put the every aspect of a modern state under the sole control of one guy, it's destined to fail because humans are imperfect beings who inevitably make bad decisions. That is why the system of checks and balances is so important.
Great post. The Nazi revolution put peasants in charge, like the USSR.
In 1942, Hitler made himself head of OKW, basically Chairman of the Joint Chiefs. Imagine a Corporal running a war. Thank God, they were so stupid.
Posted on 1/19/17 at 11:01 pm to Sid in Lakeshore
Once again, a seamingly strategic blunder for one very good reason, they needed the oil.
Posted on 1/19/17 at 11:09 pm to goldennugget
Wow you are dumb as frick
Posted on 1/19/17 at 11:13 pm to kingbob
Thank you. Oil was the answer for the Japanese attack. Nothing else. They have none. Except for whales. Which can't fuel warships.
Posted on 1/19/17 at 11:19 pm to blzr
quote:
Wow you are dumb as frick
Dumb as a box of rocks. Sometimes he makes sense. Naw.
Posted on 1/19/17 at 11:25 pm to beachreb61
We would never have gone to war with Japan had we not put an oil embargo in place against them. The embargo nearly collapsed their war machine, forcing them to do something drastic.
Posted on 1/19/17 at 11:42 pm to Napoleon
quote:
Where would Germany have built an Oak Ridge?
Bingomundo. They had uranium mines and could have built diffusion trains or centrifuge trains. They were in the middle of a war, though, surrounded and that shite would've been blowed up in a heartbeat. If we took out Essen, we'd find and destroy those massive factories, too.
We could get away with it because we had two oceans and a Navy that said the enemy wasn't going to be able to bomb our weapons plants.
EDIT: I just realized that was the point you'd already made.
This post was edited on 1/19/17 at 11:44 pm
Posted on 1/20/17 at 12:00 am to TigerstuckinMS
It was inevitable once the US factories became the arsenal of democracy. Our war machine was simply unstoppable by Germany or Japan. It was only a matter od time. Hitler's invasion Russia shortened the war. Victory would have just taken longer had he not done so.
Posted on 1/20/17 at 12:12 am to kingbob
quote:
We would never have gone to war with Japan had we not put an oil embargo in place against them. The embargo nearly collapsed their war machine, forcing them to do something drastic.
You are a special kind of stupid.
Damn, son. Are you the ghost of Tojo?
Posted on 1/20/17 at 12:15 am to LSUTigersVCURams
quote:
they'd probably be speaking German in Moscow and Paris right now.
I dont think so. The Allies still had the atom bomb. Germany would have been obliterated before the US just let Nazis take over all of Europe
Posted on 1/20/17 at 12:17 am to bamafan1001
Good point.
When the Germans took over Moscau. the war was over, until we nuked their dumbasses.
When the Germans took over Moscau. the war was over, until we nuked their dumbasses.
Posted on 1/20/17 at 12:18 am to Kcrad
He's not wrong. Our reason for the embargo was because they decided to invade Southeast Asia. Had they not done that, there wouldn't have been an embargo
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