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Started By
Message
re: Vox.com says murders are up but crime is not
Posted on 7/25/21 at 11:57 am to Bruco
Posted on 7/25/21 at 11:57 am to Bruco
quote:
Weaker presence plus “bail reform”.
I was 100% behind the law here, and I changed my mind in less than a year.
Regardless of what the bleeding hearts tell you, it strongly affects your quality of life.
0
Posted on 7/25/21 at 11:59 am to LegendInMyMind
quote:
The main thing I want to see is equity in sentencing. Don't give a guy 5 years in one state when a guy two states away gets 75 years for the same damn crime. That's not justice. Don't let overworked, lazy, or otherwise useless DAs circumvent the system because it is too broken to fix.
Prosecutorial discretion probably accounts for over 75% of the outcomes in state court. Not only are sentencing ranges generally absurdly wide, but that doesn't stop a prosecutor from up-billing (prosecuting someone for a crime that they probably can't prove, but carries a ton of risk for the defendant) or reducing a charge.
Posted on 7/25/21 at 12:00 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
The feds aren't dealing with your local hood rat violence, meth heads and crime rings.
Drug and gun crimes are the bread and butter of the federal criminal legal system. Regardless, the crime itself doesn't matter. For example, prior criminal history is always a factor in setting bond, as is being out on bond and re-arrested. It's likewise a factor in determining detention.
Posted on 7/25/21 at 12:03 pm to Joshjrn
quote:
The federal system appears to have been doing just fine for the last several decades.
The federal system doesn’t deal with violent crime at nearly the rate of state courts.
Posted on 7/25/21 at 12:03 pm to Bruco
quote:
That does not appear to be the way many of these judges are handling it. If you aren’t going to use high bail as a proxy for no bail, then you need to lower the bar on who gets detained pre trial.
Just setting it low for everyone not on a murder charge does not seem to a good system for public safety
I don't disagree with you. That's why I advocate for individualized detention hearings for each and every arrest. Judges and prosecutors are opposed to that. They would rather just set a monetary bond and wash their hands of the issue, regardless of whether the person remains detained or is released after making bond. It's simply a complicated way of essentially creating a paradigm in which the only thing deciding whether someone can fight their charges while free or while locked in a cage is if they have money.
Posted on 7/25/21 at 12:04 pm to Joshjrn
quote:
Prosecutorial discretion probably accounts for over 75% of the outcomes in state court. Not only are sentencing ranges generally absurdly wide, but that doesn't stop a prosecutor from up-billing (prosecuting someone for a crime that they probably can't prove, but carries a ton of risk for the defendant) or reducing a charge.
5 vs 75 years. One of those had multiple prior felony convictions. One of those was a violent felon. One of those should have gone to a crime ridden shithole to commit his crime instead of doing it somewhere with a DA that actually gives a shite about people like pregnant women who were pistol whipped.
Posted on 7/25/21 at 12:05 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Reduced police presence + bail reform + soft DA's = Sky high crime rate.
Don’t discount a social movement that not only excuses but in some cases actively supports lawlessness.
Posted on 7/25/21 at 12:05 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:
The federal system doesn’t deal with violent crime at nearly the rate of state courts.
While I don't disagree, I'm not sure how that's an argument against their system of determining detention. The feds certainly deal with a fair amount of violent crimes.
Posted on 7/25/21 at 12:10 pm to Joshjrn
quote:
While I don't disagree, I'm not sure how that's an argument against their system of determining detention.
Because of the sheer number of defendants. Unless you are arguing that states should detain basically any defendant accused of a violent crime until trial which really isn’t feasible.
This post was edited on 7/25/21 at 12:12 pm
Posted on 7/25/21 at 12:13 pm to stout
Be careful. I think talking about rising crime in America is itself a hate crime now. You want to be able to get a job or get on a plane, right?
There is nothing to see now.
There is nothing to see now.
Posted on 7/25/21 at 12:15 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:
Because of the sheer number of defendants. Unless you are arguing that states should detain basically any defendant accused of a violent crime until trial which really isn’t feasible.
I'm certainly not arguing that states should detain every individual accused of a violent crime. With that said, I don't believe that over-criminalization of non-violent offenses and the underfunding of the criminal legal system (at the end of the day, I consider them to be two sides of the same coin: the more crimes you create, the more you need to fund the system, and vice versa) is a legitimate justification for having an utterly atrocious system of monetary bond.
In short, if one wants a system in which basically every person is a criminal at some point, then it should be extravagantly funded. If one doesn't want to extravagantly fund the criminal legal system, then we should reduce the number of "crimes".
Posted on 7/25/21 at 12:23 pm to Joshjrn
Now, here's the dirty little secret of the criminal legal system: as the system currently stands, minor "crimes" are money makers. They are more likely to go on probation, pay fines and court costs, etc. So they cost less to prosecute than they bring in. On the only hand, serious crimes are massive money losers. They cost more to prosecute than they bring in.
But this only holds as long as minor crimes are all but ignored by judges and prosecutors.
At which point you give those minor offenses more attention, whether at the early stages of detention/bond, investigation, or later stages involving trial work, they stop being money makers. At best, they break even. At worst, they start losing money. That's why nearly every DA and law enforcement organization is rabidly opposed to marijuana legalization. It's also why they "invest" so many resources on traffic enforcement. It's all about the money.
But this only holds as long as minor crimes are all but ignored by judges and prosecutors.
At which point you give those minor offenses more attention, whether at the early stages of detention/bond, investigation, or later stages involving trial work, they stop being money makers. At best, they break even. At worst, they start losing money. That's why nearly every DA and law enforcement organization is rabidly opposed to marijuana legalization. It's also why they "invest" so many resources on traffic enforcement. It's all about the money.
This post was edited on 7/25/21 at 12:38 pm
Posted on 7/25/21 at 12:33 pm to stout
How many state/county/city increases?
Posted on 7/25/21 at 12:37 pm to stout
quote:
murder rates increased in cities run by Democrats and Republicans, progressive and not.
I’m sure they have factual data to back this up
Posted on 7/25/21 at 12:53 pm to Joshjrn
quote:
Drug and gun crimes are the bread and butter of the federal criminal legal system.
Wrong. Illegal immigration both 8 USC 1325 (misdemeanor) and 8 USC 1326 (felony) currently represent over half of all federal prosecutions. I'm telling you this as a fed, I know what gets prostituted and what doesn't. I've also seen 90% of these illegal aliens go to their detention hearings and get put out on the street because they are not considered a flight risk. And they never show up for their hearings. Ever.
The USMS is too overwhelmed to track them all down so they stay fugitives until they're arrested for doing something to get put back in jail, usually DUI or domestic violence.
All this to say that the federal system is a dumpster fire right now and shouldn't be used as the model for success, unless flight risk aliens (i.e., almost all of them) remain in custody throughout their criminal case proceedings.
This post was edited on 7/25/21 at 12:56 pm
Posted on 7/25/21 at 12:58 pm to ClientNumber9
Where do you live/work?
Posted on 7/25/21 at 1:22 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:
Don’t discount a social movement that not only excuses but in some cases actively supports lawlessness.
We went through it. Some rubes still think only the indignant and powerless commit crime for deserved reasons.
Posted on 7/25/21 at 1:29 pm to Joshjrn
quote:
he idea that potential murderers are sitting there thinking "well, I probably wouldn't try to kill this person last year, but police funding is down this year, so my odds of success have increased X%..
No dude, it doesn't mean that at all. If those individuals that make the spontaneous decision to murder some one had been locked up for their earlier crimes, then it doesn't get to that point and the murder doesn't happen. Murders almost always have long rapsheets, lock them up for that attempted murder they tried the time before.
This post was edited on 7/25/21 at 1:31 pm
Posted on 7/25/21 at 1:29 pm to stout
This country has become a dangerous shite hole!!!!!!!
Posted on 7/25/21 at 1:29 pm to Joshjrn
DP
This post was edited on 7/25/21 at 1:30 pm
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