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Message
re: Video: guy kills unarmed neighbor after telling him to slow down and plays victim
Posted on 1/31/23 at 8:38 am to HodsonTiger13
Posted on 1/31/23 at 8:38 am to HodsonTiger13
quote:
Gonzales does NOT look upset at all in his booking photo.
Of course not. Did you see the video once the cops arrived? He wasn't upset at all about it, and was really only upset when he was being detained and not "treated like the victim."
His actions in the video lead me to believe that he honestly feels he is in the right. He even points out in his own defense that the neighbor's camera should have everything that happened on it. That's not the words/actions of someone who believes they just committed first degree murder.
0
Posted on 1/31/23 at 8:49 am to Bodie
quote:
100% false if you read the link you posted.
Well let me rephrase. Charged for his role in the dismemberment and cover up
Well, you kicked up a fire storm of hate and speculation for a dude who prosecutors admitted, was nowhere near the apartment when the assault and murder occurred. That’s a pretty big miss.
Of course nobody else took the 45 seconds to click your link and read it either, so just another day in social media paradise with a bunch of ignorant people getting their jimmies in a wad.
Posted on 1/31/23 at 8:53 am to Pvt Hudson
quote:
speeder appears to shove the shooter at 1:05 mark, shooter draws and fires.
First, it's not clear at all that he was shoved. But assuming that he was, you can't legally kill someone for shoving you.
quote:
Just because the guy turns around doesn’t mean he isn’t still a threat.
Once he turned around and was walking away, at that moment, he was not an imminent threat. You're wrong. He was no threat at the moment he unloaded 3 shots in his back.
Now, had he gone to his truck and started reaching for something, after a stating a threat, you could argue he was a threat at that moment. But not once he's shot in the front, then turns around and is walking away.
Posted on 1/31/23 at 8:57 am to Meauxjeaux
quote:
Well, you kicked up a fire storm of hate and speculation for a dude who prosecutors admitted, was nowhere near the apartment when the assault and murder occurred.
well the dude literally got 37.5 years for reckless child abuse and evidence tampering in relation to the girl’s murder so I really don’t think you need to play a sad violin for him or complain about a “fire storm” of hate. He’s still a convicted piece of shite whose actions led to her death/dismemberment.
This post was edited on 1/31/23 at 9:00 am
Posted on 1/31/23 at 8:58 am to Festus
quote:
But assuming that he was, you can't legally kill someone for shoving you.
quote:
Once he turned around and was walking away, at that moment, he was not an imminent threat.
If he shoves you and says "I'm going to get my gun and kill you" and starts walking back to his car, does that constitute a threat?
I think someone asked it earlier in the thread...do you have to wait until he produces a firearm to act accordingly? At what point can it be argued that he felt like he was in danger?
FYI, I'm legit asking because I'm not sure in the eyes of the law.
Posted on 1/31/23 at 9:01 am to Byrdybyrd05
Good thing that dog didn't get shot. How the hell did the driver hear him say slow down?
Posted on 1/31/23 at 9:04 am to Byrdybyrd05
Amazing to me that the dude showed ZERO remorse for killing a man. Regardless of the circumstances he just ended someone’s life and all he cares about is running his mouth and getting his phone. What a fricked up world.
This post was edited on 1/31/23 at 10:47 am
Posted on 1/31/23 at 9:04 am to Bodie
quote:
well the dude literally got 37.5 years for reckless child abuse and evidence tampering in relation to the girl’s murder so I really don’t think you need to play a sad violin for him or complain about a “fire storm” of hate. He’s still a convicted piece of shite whose actions led to her death/dismemberment.
Better. Have an upvote sir
Posted on 1/31/23 at 9:07 am to CocomoLSU
quote:
If he shoves you and says "I'm going to get my gun and kill you" and starts walking back to his car, does that constitute a threat?
It's a threat, but he is not in imminent danger at that moment. People that get in fights all the time make threats, but you can't just automatically kill them. And keep in mind, that's pure speculation. Did you hear him make a threat? I didn't. And I heard a lot of the conversation.
Think about it, if he was of the mindset to shoot the original dude, why not have the gun with him? Why leave it in the vehicle and get out and approach?
quote:
I think someone asked it earlier in the thread...do you have to wait until he produces a firearm to act accordingly?
No, you don't. But you would have to establish that he was in fact going to produce one. So in this case, if you see the guy lean over, grab something out of his vehicle, then start exiting the vehicle, I think at that point you could argue imminent threat.
You don't have to wait to see the gun. Just have to convince a jury of the moment you felt that you were in immediate danger of losing your life.
quote:
FYI, I'm legit asking because I'm not sure in the eyes of the law.
It's a legit question. And if this shooter can convince a jury that at the moment the guy was turned around, and retreating, that he still felt he was in immediate danger of losing his life, then he could get off. But any decent prosecutor can show that video, and should be able to establish the guy was walking away and no proof that he was in imminent danger of loss of life.
And fwiw, I think the video of the shooter afterwards will not help him at all. Quite the opposite. He comes across as a smug POS and treats LEO like garbage. That will work against him. That's not confidence, it's cocky and being an a-hole.
Posted on 1/31/23 at 9:08 am to Byrdybyrd05
That’s not even egregious speeding. What a shite way to lose your life.
Posted on 1/31/23 at 9:11 am to Festus
If you shoot someone or before you shoot someone, they turn around and say I’m getting my gun which is a few steps away.
What is the best legal response? Do you stand there and get in a cowboy quick draw contest, shoot them in the back before they get gun, run away and they shoot you in the back?
Ideally, walk away before guns are drawn and NOT kill someone. But what are you supposed to do when/Id someone says they are getting a gun to kill you
What is the best legal response? Do you stand there and get in a cowboy quick draw contest, shoot them in the back before they get gun, run away and they shoot you in the back?
Ideally, walk away before guns are drawn and NOT kill someone. But what are you supposed to do when/Id someone says they are getting a gun to kill you
This post was edited on 1/31/23 at 9:16 am
Posted on 1/31/23 at 9:13 am to Festus
quote:
And fwiw, I think the video of the shooter afterwards will not help him at all. Quite the opposite. He comes across as a smug POS and treats LEO like garbage. That will work against him. That's not confidence, it's cocky and being an a-hole.
I don’t mind him standing up for his rights. Standing up for your rights often looks cocky, assholeish and uncomfortable viewing for most when dealing with the authorities.
Posted on 1/31/23 at 9:14 am to Byrdybyrd05
quote:seemed very calm for a person that just killed someone...psychopath
Joseph Gonzales
Posted on 1/31/23 at 9:17 am to Chicken
This right here. Dude is too calm after that.
Stupid incident all around, but that is straight up murder.
Stupid incident all around, but that is straight up murder.
This post was edited on 1/31/23 at 9:21 am
Posted on 1/31/23 at 9:19 am to SomethingLikeA
quote:
If you shoot someone or before you shoot someone, they turn around and say I’m getting my gun which is a few steps away.
If I see the gun a few feet away, and he makes that threat, and starts moving to the gun, I aim at him and yell "Don't get that gun"! As many times as possible, and as loud as possible, so it can be heard.
quote:
What is the best legal response? Do you stand there and get in a cowboy quick draw contest, shoot them in the back before they get gun, run away and they shoot you in the back?
The second his hand touches the gun, and he started to turn, I would shoot. There's no way he can aim and shoot you while your gun is trained on him. There's no quick draw. You have the bead on him. He's fricked.
If possible, I would try to wait until his torso was towards me just so I wouldn't have to deal with explaining a back shot to the jury.
But there's huge difference between the scenario you just painted, and the one we just saw. I never heard the guy threaten to get a gun. And I don't believe one was ever produced, so the shooter can't claim he saw one. And the dude wasn't anywhere close to a weapon if it in fact was in his vehicle.
Posted on 1/31/23 at 9:22 am to Meauxjeaux
quote:
I don’t mind him standing up for his rights. Standing up for your rights often looks cocky, assholeish and uncomfortable viewing for most when dealing with the authorities.
That's fair for you. But I don't think a jury of 12, after hearing the prosecution build a case of him being a raging murderer, will view him as one simply standing up for his rights. They will probably view him as a remorseless cold blooded murderer, over what. Speeding? Even if he had real reason to shoot, think about it, anyone with even an ounce of a conscience would feel like shite that they just killed someone. Maybe not in the first seconds. But 10 minutes later, and you still feel nothing but contempt for cops?
I don't think a jury would sympathize with that.
Posted on 1/31/23 at 9:23 am to HerkFlyer
quote:
Another case of someone getting shot over disrespek'.
So preventable on so many levels. Deceased could have kept driving and live to see another day, killer could have kept his fricking mouth shut and live the rest of his life a free man.
"A gentle answer deflects anger, but harsh words make tempers flare." - Proverbs 15:1
Posted on 1/31/23 at 9:35 am to Byrdybyrd05
Yeah that’ssssss…not self defense. That’s murder. Enjoy the shower $€X
Posted on 1/31/23 at 9:37 am to Festus
quote:
The second his hand touches the gun, and he started to turn, I would shoot. There's no way he can aim and shoot you while your gun is trained on him. There's no quick draw. You have the bead on him. He's fricked.
If possible, I would try to wait until his torso was towards me just so I wouldn't have to deal with explaining a back shot to the jury.
But this isn't the movies where you're killing him in one shot. He could very easily turn around and you miss and then he's shooting back at you.
And I realize we are doing hypotheticals, I'm just saying you're painting a MUCH easier picture than what usually happens in reality.
quote:
But there's huge difference between the scenario you just painted, and the one we just saw. I never heard the guy threaten to get a gun.
This is where I said earlier that maybe they can clear up the audio so we can see exactly what was said in the exchange that led to the gunfire.
I am fully aware that one possibility is that this dude is just a hothead a-hole with a gun who wanted to kill someone. And I'm okay with that being the case too. I just like talking through the different possibilities and legal ramifications of them.
Just like the dad/son thread from last week, there was all kinds of talk about they were guilty vs. innocent, and in the end the dad is charged and the son isn't. shite like this is just interesting to me.
Posted on 1/31/23 at 9:50 am to CocomoLSU
quote:
But this isn't the movies where you're killing him in one shot. He could very easily turn around and you miss and then he's shooting back at you.
I wouldn't shoot just once. I would continue shooting until the threat is neutralized. If that dude can pull a gun, and turn around with me shooting a hail of bullets at him, take aim, and shoot me, then that's on me.
But I get what you're saying, I've had training.
quote:
And I realize we are doing hypotheticals, I'm just saying you're painting a MUCH easier picture than what usually happens in reality.
I'm not necessarily saying it's easy at all. But what I am saying is that shooting someone unarmed, then putting 3 bullets in his back as he is walking away, is a HUGE gamble that I would never take. He's going to REALLY have a hard time convincing a jury that what you just saw was self defense. And if he can't, he may spend the rest of his life in prison.
Before I do that, I'm saying that it may not be easy, but I'm going with my approach and taking my chances. That's all.
I'm also saying, though, that in no way would I ever be standing in the street, armed, arguing over a speeder anyway. Too much bad can come of that. But I will be shocked if the shooter gets off cleanly on self defense. Juries can be pretty whack though, so who knows.
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