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re: Vaccinations for kids? Related to Autism?
Posted on 1/24/24 at 4:05 pm to idsrdum
Posted on 1/24/24 at 4:05 pm to idsrdum
That was a selling point for the broader audience, but without reading the actual data, I don't know what it means within the context of a pathogen, which she didn't address, nor did she pretend she was going to address. She conveniently left out any dimensions in her data representations, which makes the reference of 5x a little weird. The claim that those vaccines hurt more than they help was absolutely wild, and I'd have to look at the data to see if the data itself justifies that conclusion.
The far more interesting thing was about the beneficial aspects of live vaccines, but the problem with focusing on live vaccine development is two-fold.
First, not every pathogen can be made into a 'live' preparation. You need specific characteristics of pathogens, namely finding antigenic stability that produces effective immune response. The amount of pathogens which have those characteristics is very small. Secondly, you need to attenuate it to a form which won't provoke the disease is time-intensive. It takes a long time to develop live vaccines.
That also doesn't mention the associated injury rate related directly to live vaccines, which is far higher than in other forms. Smallpox had a confirmed myocarditis rate of 1 in 5000, while it had elevated troponin levels in 1 in 200. The injury rate was also extremely high.
The most interesting notion is that the introduction to live, pathogenic material early in infancy can lead to better health outcomes is extremely provocative, and I could see a theoretical argument on why it might produce that effect. But without sitting down with the material, I can only say it is a provocative idea.
The far more interesting thing was about the beneficial aspects of live vaccines, but the problem with focusing on live vaccine development is two-fold.
First, not every pathogen can be made into a 'live' preparation. You need specific characteristics of pathogens, namely finding antigenic stability that produces effective immune response. The amount of pathogens which have those characteristics is very small. Secondly, you need to attenuate it to a form which won't provoke the disease is time-intensive. It takes a long time to develop live vaccines.
That also doesn't mention the associated injury rate related directly to live vaccines, which is far higher than in other forms. Smallpox had a confirmed myocarditis rate of 1 in 5000, while it had elevated troponin levels in 1 in 200. The injury rate was also extremely high.
The most interesting notion is that the introduction to live, pathogenic material early in infancy can lead to better health outcomes is extremely provocative, and I could see a theoretical argument on why it might produce that effect. But without sitting down with the material, I can only say it is a provocative idea.
1
Posted on 1/24/24 at 4:07 pm to Howyouluhdat
quote:
All they care about is when their next care package arrives.
Lol
quote:
The Medical school curriculum is a joke in this country.
Describe for me what you think the typical medical school curriculum is. Go into as much detail as you like.
Posted on 1/24/24 at 4:10 pm to Howyouluhdat
It’s kind of shocking the amount of people on the OT that blindly follow the advice of doctors even after Covid.
Not really though bc it is the OT
Not really though bc it is the OT
Posted on 1/24/24 at 4:21 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Describe for me what you think the typical medical school curriculum is. Go into as much detail as you like.
No problem. For starters teach how the human body works and how to treat people correctly. Instead we have doctors prescribing medicine they know nothing about to counter side effects from another pharmaceutical they know nothing about so they can grease their palms with Insurance money that they most likely coded incorrectly in the first place. Pump everyone full of drugs that’s the American way
Posted on 1/24/24 at 4:24 pm to Howyouluhdat
quote:
For starters teach how the human body works and how to treat people correctly.
I was hoping for some more detail. As in what specific courses, the order of them, what should be taught instead. Not a very enlightened answer, honestly.
quote:
Instead we have doctors prescribing medicine they know nothing about to counter side effects from another pharmaceutical they know nothing about so they can grease their palms with Insurance money that they most likely coded incorrectly in the first place.
This is a toddler's understanding of things, which you made clear in the first part of your answer. You have no idea what you are talking about.
Posted on 1/24/24 at 4:24 pm to Howyouluhdat
quote:So you don't know anything. That's what I figured. Just an angry, ignorant person.
No problem. For starters teach how the human body works and how to treat people correctly. Instead we have doctors prescribing medicine they know nothing about to counter side effects from another pharmaceutical they know nothing about so they can grease their palms with Insurance money that they most likely coded incorrectly in the first place. Pump everyone full of drugs that’s the American way
Posted on 1/24/24 at 4:28 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
This is a toddler's understanding of things, which you made clear in the first part of your answer. You have no idea what you are talking about.
This is from personal experiences so yes I do know but I take it you are a bit biased in your dialogue
Posted on 1/24/24 at 4:29 pm to Jake88
quote:
So you don't know anything. That's what I figured. Just an angry, ignorant person.
Good comeback sweetie
Posted on 1/24/24 at 4:31 pm to Howyouluhdat
quote:I know it was.
Good comeback sweetie
Posted on 1/24/24 at 4:34 pm to crazy4lsu
I don't trust no liberal doctors and their fancy "learning!" All they do in them woke classrooms is teach them which pills Pfizer pays the most for and how to vote for BIDEN! I get my medical information from www.truepatriotpurebloods.com/virusesareamyth
Posted on 1/24/24 at 4:34 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
This is a toddler's understanding of things
Posted on 1/24/24 at 4:40 pm to Howyouluhdat
quote:
This is from personal experiences so yes I do know but I take it you are a bit biased in your dialogue
Your personal experiences aren't meaningful. You don't know anything about medical training, so I wouldn't go around claiming you do. Secondly, no where in your ramblings did you describe why patients are medicated. The first-line approach for most primary care conditions isn't pharmacological intervention. And even non-interventional approaches have their discontents, mainly because patients are often poor managers of their own health.
There isn't a medication that I prescribe that for which the side effects I either don't know already or don't look up before I order it. It is easy to do, since our EMR has links on hand for that purpose. Then I communicate that to the patient and their families. That is the way that doctors are taught to do things.
This post was edited on 1/24/24 at 4:42 pm
Posted on 1/24/24 at 4:43 pm to Grassy1
The reason for the correlation is because kids typically take vaccines around the same time that a child will start showing "symptoms" of autism.
Posted on 1/24/24 at 4:44 pm to Norbert
Damn Crazy4lsu that realization must suck
This post was edited on 1/24/24 at 4:45 pm
Posted on 1/24/24 at 4:51 pm to Howyouluhdat
quote:
Damn Crazy4lsu that realization must suck
Lol what? Can you describe medical education again for me?
Posted on 1/24/24 at 5:00 pm to Grassy1
Older pregnancies and even older fathers have been shown to have higher rates of autism and other disabilities. That is a side effect of feminism and putting off childbirth into your late 30s and 40s.
Posted on 1/24/24 at 5:08 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Can you describe medical education again for me?
Absolutely. Ok I’m done
Posted on 1/24/24 at 5:11 pm to Howyouluhdat
That's what I thought. Run along.
Posted on 1/24/24 at 5:14 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
She conveniently left out any dimensions in her data representations, which makes the reference of 5x a little weird.
There was a reference on the bottom of the screen of Morgenson et al EBioMedicine 2017 - a google search brings you to it. LINK
quote:
That also doesn't mention the associated injury rate related directly to live vaccines, which is far higher than in other forms.
Understood and agree.
quote:
The far more interesting thing was about the beneficial aspects of live vaccines
While it is interesting to ponder how early exposure to a pathogen can help train the immune system against unrelated pathogens, I believe that parents should be more concerned with the potential detrimental effects on their healthy child. First, do no harm.
Posted on 1/24/24 at 5:29 pm to idsrdum
quote:
While it is interesting to ponder how early exposure to a pathogen can help train the immune system against unrelated pathogens, I believe that parents should be more concerned with the potential detrimental effects on their healthy child. First, do no harm.
Well, that calculation was made long ago. Stanley Plotkin, who was an important figure in vaccinology, was moved toward interventions through vaccines after seeing the effects of congenital rubella on infants he saw in the wards of Philadelphia. What is worse, some non-specific side effects of vaccines that probably won't give them life-altering conditions, or congenital rubella, which include very specific findings like hearing loss, cataracts, cardiac defects and a laundry list of sequalae.
It is a sad reality that we will have to continually reexplain this every generation because the vaccine interventions were so effective that we can even worry about something as nebulous as 'non-specific' side effects. Between the realities of each of those illnesses with their long-term effects, and some reference to non-specific side effects, I'm going to have to go with doing no harm in the immediate direct way, which means preventing the illness. You'll have to convince me that the vaccination side effect profile is far, far greater than the illness side effect profile for me to even consider changing that approach.
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