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Started By
Message
re: U.S. Military no longer supporting Scouts
Posted on 11/25/25 at 10:32 am to Dam Guide
Posted on 11/25/25 at 10:32 am to Dam Guide
quote:
Get this Lord Baden Powell always wanted girls in Scouts. There were actually girls in the scouting program from almost the very beginning. People like you threw a hissy fit back in the day and he and his sister were forced to create Girl Guides.
Negative. We have access to the man’s own words on the issue. Powell NEVER wanted mixed troops. While he thought there was value in outdoor activities for girls, he intended Scouting to be a Boys group from the very beginning. He wrote Scouting for Boys, not “Scouting for kids”. He was in fact adamant that girls’ groups not have the word Scout in their title:
quote:
Quite suddenly from the other side of the arena a figure started to come, in fact strode, over towards us. We realised that it was Baden-Powell himself. 'We scrambled down the bank where we were sitting... and he came towards us demanding: 'What the dickens are you doing here?' 'Our `patrol leader' said: 'We want to do the same thing as the boys. We want to be girl scouts.' Baden-Powell said: 'That's impossible, this is only for the boys.'
LINK
He set the Scouts up in a paramilitary model for a reason, and viewed a coed presence in the field as a harmful distraction for each gender.
1
Posted on 11/25/25 at 10:34 am to ghost2most
quote:
What I've noticed about Scouts since my daughter joined as a Lion last year is that it seems to be an outlet for kids on the spectrum. Not sure if it's always been that way.
This was definitely my experience in the 80s. I swear my entire group was a bunch of freaks & outsiders. I think it was parents looking to get their kid involved in some sort of social activity, because they realized sports were NOT going to be an option for these kids.
Honestly, if I was in a better group I would have probably enjoyed it, but I hated it.
This post was edited on 11/25/25 at 10:37 am
Posted on 11/25/25 at 10:34 am to ghost2most
quote:
- it's an NPR link.
Probably propaganda
Posted on 11/25/25 at 10:35 am to biglego
quote:
Yes I believe you’re right. Scouts is highly dependent on the troop. My own troop when I was a kid was just ok but mostly we sat around tying knots. One single camping trip.
My son was still a little fellow, he was 7-8, and his group (I forget if it’s a den or pack or troop) met weekly at a school playground and did projects but it wasn’t very adventurous. Half the kids were girls and their moms were always closely engaged. So you had a group of half girls, half boys, with a strong Indian mom presence—it just wasn’t what he expected. Felt more like an extension of school.
It's crazy how different each unit is from the other. We switched units to probably the most outdoor active unit in our region. We went from doing 1 or 2 campouts locally a year to the kids organizing and fundraising to so different groups of them could go camping in portugal, philmont, ski trips, local campouts, northern tier, sea base, and more in the same year. It's nuts how much they do because they have different patrols very organized with different goals.
I always highly recommend parents shop around for the pack or unit that best fits their family's schedule. You can find highly active units that require a lot from the parents or more low activity that don't put so much demand on your schedule.
Posted on 11/25/25 at 10:36 am to Salmon
quote:
There are all boy troops.
There are all girl troops (my daughter is in one).
There are coed troops.
There are very conservative troops (my daughter's troop is very conservative). There are definitely more liberal troops.
Like with most massive organizations, it depends on local leadership.
Painting these things with broad brushes is always dumb.
these all boy troops are only one angry feminist with twitter account away from becoming coed troops.
Posted on 11/25/25 at 10:37 am to PhilipMarlowe
quote:
This was definitely my experience in the 80s. I swear my entire group was a bunch of freaks & outsiders. I think it was parents looking to get their kid involved in some sort of social activity, because they realized sports was NOT going to be an option for these kids.
Honestly, if I was in a better group I would have probably enjoyed it, but I hated it.
I am very curious when/if mine outgrows it. Right now, she's still super sweet and inclusive. She definitely mostly interacts with the kids more like her but she's not put off by the ones a little different.
For all the talk about rough and tumble, etc., mine is probably the most athletic cub in the pack. Not bragging because it's not a high bar haha
Posted on 11/25/25 at 10:39 am to DesScorp
quote:
Negative. We have access to the man’s own words on the issue. Powell NEVER wanted mixed troops. While he thought there was value in outdoor activities for girls, he intended Scouting to be a Boys group from the very beginning. He wrote Scouting for Boys, not “Scouting for kids”. He was in fact adamant that girls’ groups not have the word Scout in their title:
Never said he wanted mix, but that he was fine with girls being scouts. He called certain women, scouts. This letter is from 1908
"Miss May Jones,
I am glad to hear you are taking up scouting. I think there can be girl scouts just as well as boy scouts, and hope you will form a patrol, and let us know as yours will be the first girl scout patrol.
You can work on just the same lines as the boys, and so need not do much more dusting and sewing than they, although a little of both are often necessary for a scout.
Wishing you all success.
Yours truly Baden Powell "
I can dig up more if you want... It was actually a feminist that led the negative push to make the girl guides distinct from scouts.
This post was edited on 11/25/25 at 10:48 am
Posted on 11/25/25 at 10:43 am to Sam Quint
quote:
these all boy troops are only one angry feminist with twitter account away from becoming coed troops.
Not gonna happen, its the charter orgs that have the power over what is allowed in the troops. If your local troop goes coed, its because the charter org/most likely the church that hosts it decided it wanted to go coed.
This post was edited on 11/25/25 at 10:44 am
Posted on 11/25/25 at 10:58 am to Sam Quint
quote:
these all boy troops are only one angry feminist with twitter account away from becoming coed troops.
Nope.
You seem to have really strong opinions about things in which you know nothing about.
Posted on 11/25/25 at 11:22 am to Dam Guide
quote:
We joke it's where all the creepy Scientologist type people went.
I'm sure that's true in some places. We took 10 troops down to the USS Alabama, and ours was the largest of the groups. We're more conservative, but most of the others were from our area. I think we had a group from Huntsville and the Auburn/Opelika area as well. We really try to do at least one outing a month. Not all are camping, but my 7 and 12 year old love it. Stuff we probably wouldn't have done if they were not involved.
Someone else mentioned sports, and that is one reason I was looking for something for my boys. The older one played soccer, but has no interest, and the younger one has done soccer a few times as well. They love going camping and taking our dog with us when we're not going on a scout campout. They've been putting together survival kits with firestarters, paracord, knives etc the last few meetings. Stuff that is useful and they're actually learning skills.
Posted on 11/25/25 at 11:27 am to TU Rob
People can bitch about girls being in Scouts, but Girl Scouts don't camp, which is what my daughter wanted to do.
Her troop camps a lot, like once a month. She loves it.
We had severe storms here last night, and she handled it amazingly. I don't know many 12 year old girls that would camp in a tent that they set up during severe weather and not be phased. I asked her how it was and she just said "it was really loud" and that she just put her headphones in and read a book by headlamp.
Her troop camps a lot, like once a month. She loves it.
We had severe storms here last night, and she handled it amazingly. I don't know many 12 year old girls that would camp in a tent that they set up during severe weather and not be phased. I asked her how it was and she just said "it was really loud" and that she just put her headphones in and read a book by headlamp.
Posted on 11/25/25 at 11:29 am to ghost2most
So nothing has happened and nothing may happen but NPR says it could happen. Lots of stuff could happen.
Posted on 11/25/25 at 11:29 am to Dam Guide
Well, you did imply that BP wanted mixed groups, and that he caved to social pressure. But both he and his sister thought that scouting had very different roles for each gender. He was very much onboard the the notion of the Scouts as a way to build masculinity in boys. And the Kings’s own greeting to the Scouts at the Crystal Palace emphasized their duty in scouting to “defend the Empire”, clearly recognizing the paramilitary nature of boy scouts as preparation for future soldiers roles. Lt. General Baden-Powell was not going to prepare girls for a life in a rifle company in the Hindu Kush or Kenya. His sister also made it clear that there were different gender roles for each group:
LINK
quote:
This organisation, although on parallel lines with that of the Boy Scouts, is different in its aims and details. Whereas the teaching of the Boy Scouts develops manliness, that of Girl Guides makes for womanliness, in both cases by means which appeal to the young people themselves
LINK
This post was edited on 11/25/25 at 11:37 am
Posted on 11/25/25 at 11:35 am to DesScorp
quote:
Again, you’re conflating two different issues: girls participation in the Scouting movement, and mixed gender Scout organizations. No one is disputing that Powell thought girls having their own groups was a good idea. But both he and his sister thought that scouting had very different roles for each gender. To portray Powell as an enthusiastic mixed-gender guy is a misrepresentation of his views. And the Kings’s own greeting to the Scouts at the Crystal Palace emphasized their duty in scouting to “defend the Empire”, clearly recognizing the paramilitary nature of boy scouts as preparation for future soldiers roles. Lt. General Baden-Powell was not going to prepare girls for a life in a rifle company in the Hindu Kush or Kenya. His sister also made it clear that there were different gender roles for each group:
Show me anywhere in my posts about saying Scouting needs to be mixed completely or that Baden Powell said it needed to be mixed completely. In fact, I have argued with people that each charter org gets to determine if they want single gender or mixed gender and it's up to them to make that decision.
I agree with that, I am fine with troops being single gender or being mixed. It's up to the units to determine what's best for them. I would never push for all of scouting to be mixed. It's up to the people that run their units to determine what's best for themselves. If you want to run single gender troops, I will stand behind you and support you 100%. We need more kids in scouts learning what I believe are good values.
I also don't think Baden Powell 100 years ago would have wanted mixed gender, even if the guy was a pretty progressive guy for his time frame. His time frame would have never wanted mixed troops. He was fine with girls in scouts, but was pushed out of that belief and chose to pursue creating the girl guides with his sister.
This post was edited on 11/25/25 at 11:39 am
Posted on 11/25/25 at 11:35 am to Salmon
quote:
Nope.
You seem to have really strong opinions about things in which you know nothing about.
you dont say? He is one of many miserable fricks that make this board worse as time passes.
Posted on 11/25/25 at 11:40 am to Dam Guide
quote:
Show me anywhere in my posts about saying Scouting needs to be mixed completely or that Baden Powell said it needed to be mixed.
I’ve edited the post in response as I missed your statement on the mixed issue. Im doing thus on a phone, and it takes forever to edit the damned thing.
Posted on 11/25/25 at 11:40 am to TU Rob
quote:
I'm sure that's true in some places. We took 10 troops down to the USS Alabama, and ours was the largest of the groups. We're more conservative, but most of the others were from our area. I think we had a group from Huntsville and the Auburn/Opelika area as well. We really try to do at least one outing a month. Not all are camping, but my 7 and 12 year old love it. Stuff we probably wouldn't have done if they were not involved.
Someone else mentioned sports, and that is one reason I was looking for something for my boys. The older one played soccer, but has no interest, and the younger one has done soccer a few times as well. They love going camping and taking our dog with us when we're not going on a scout campout. They've been putting together survival kits with firestarters, paracord, knives etc the last few meetings. Stuff that is useful and they're actually learning skills.
Trail life basically just ripped off the scout program, it's all the same stuff we do, they even do pinewood derby. I know one of the leaders in Florida started working with an aftermarket pinewood derby kit maker so they don't have to buy BSA branded pinewood derby kits. They can't call it pinewood derby though, because BSA holds that trademark.
Posted on 11/25/25 at 11:44 am to Dam Guide
quote:Our local Boy Scout group was (and by developments in the last year, still is) crawling with pedophiles. This picture of the boy scout booth was taken by my friend at his child's school's open house. He said the "Scouting America" booth went in even harder on the woke bullshite. Both were mostly devoid of interested families.
We joke it's where all the creepy Scientologist type people went.
Not sure which is worse: the scientologists or the BSA, excuse me, "Scouting America," (who has a proven track record of harboring pedophiles) coupled with an inherently pedophilic ideology that believes kids should have their genitals mutilated and their breasts cut off.
I'll take my chances with trail life, and unlike you, I'm completely objective on the matter.
Posted on 11/25/25 at 11:45 am to DesScorp
quote:
I’ve edited the post in response as I missed your statement on the mixed issue. Im doing thus on a phone, and it takes forever to edit the damned thing.
I think this is one of the biggest PR disasters that the organization has done recently. They aren't out there making sure people understand that single gender units including boy only troops and packs aren't going anywhere. No one pushing for girls and mixed troops is asking for the elimination of single gender units. There are a lot of girl packs and troops that absolutely do not want to be mixed with boys.
Everyone just wants it to be a buffet; pick the style of unit you want to run.
Posted on 11/25/25 at 11:47 am to mudshuvl05
quote:
Our local Boy Scout group was (and by developments in the last year, still is) crawling with pedophiles. This picture of the boy scout booth was taken by my friend at his child's school's open house. He said the "Scouting America" booth went in even harder on the woke bullshite. Both were mostly devoid of interested families.
Not sure which is worse: the scientologists or the BSA, excuse me, "Scouting America," (who has a proven track record of harboring pedophiles) coupled with an inherently pedophilic ideology that believes kids should have their genitals mutilated and their breasts cut off.
I'll take my chances with trail life, and unlike you, I'm completely objective on the matter.
See, the trail life people are nuts.
Thanks for the example.
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