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Update on landfill fire just east of Birmingham (re-updated Jan 11)
Posted on 1/7/23 at 9:31 am
Posted on 1/7/23 at 9:31 am
Jan 11 update for my Jefferson and St Clair county brethren:
St Clair County, where the fire is located, has contacted 4 companies about putting out the fire but is asking the state and EPA for their opinions on who to choose, they don't want to make things worse (not sure if possible) and because there may be a criminal prosecution so the landfill could be a crime scene and I guess it should only be disturbed in a very planned way. It sounds like the county will draft a report within a week and submit it to the state with hopes that the state will take the lead.
The state environmental agency, ADEM, put out a statement yesterday saying that they haven't heard from St Clair County yet but says they will offer whatever expertise they can to help the county make a decision, which doesn't exactly sound like they are ready or able to take the reigns.
St Clair County won't name the 4 companies being considered or the methods they could use. At the meeting the county said the companies gave them a timeline of 30 days to put out the fire but when interviewed the county engineer seemed a little skeptical of that.
Meanwhile, the smoke is brutal today. I've got a new Blueair purifier cranked and it seems to be holding its own.
............
This time with dramatic drone footage.
It's still burning and still smells like a tire covered in cat piss then set on fire. It's really brutal to deal with on days when the wind is sending it your way. Over 100k folks are within reach of the stench.
The Alabama Department of Environmental Management is catching serious fire for not being able to do anything about it.
It's supposed to be only a green waste landfill and understandably green waste disposal is not regulated but I've very skeptical that green waste would burn for 6 weeks with all the rain we've had and it doesn't smell like just trees and leaves.
ADEM inspected it in 2018 and found tires and hazardous waste on the site but says owners removed all of it, which I'm also very skeptical about because you can see how deep the landfill is. ADEM just got some air monitors from the EPA to check for toxic smoke contaminants.
The poor bastards who live next to the thing.
AL.com update
St Clair County, where the fire is located, has contacted 4 companies about putting out the fire but is asking the state and EPA for their opinions on who to choose, they don't want to make things worse (not sure if possible) and because there may be a criminal prosecution so the landfill could be a crime scene and I guess it should only be disturbed in a very planned way. It sounds like the county will draft a report within a week and submit it to the state with hopes that the state will take the lead.
The state environmental agency, ADEM, put out a statement yesterday saying that they haven't heard from St Clair County yet but says they will offer whatever expertise they can to help the county make a decision, which doesn't exactly sound like they are ready or able to take the reigns.
St Clair County won't name the 4 companies being considered or the methods they could use. At the meeting the county said the companies gave them a timeline of 30 days to put out the fire but when interviewed the county engineer seemed a little skeptical of that.
Meanwhile, the smoke is brutal today. I've got a new Blueair purifier cranked and it seems to be holding its own.
............
This time with dramatic drone footage.
It's still burning and still smells like a tire covered in cat piss then set on fire. It's really brutal to deal with on days when the wind is sending it your way. Over 100k folks are within reach of the stench.
The Alabama Department of Environmental Management is catching serious fire for not being able to do anything about it.
It's supposed to be only a green waste landfill and understandably green waste disposal is not regulated but I've very skeptical that green waste would burn for 6 weeks with all the rain we've had and it doesn't smell like just trees and leaves.
ADEM inspected it in 2018 and found tires and hazardous waste on the site but says owners removed all of it, which I'm also very skeptical about because you can see how deep the landfill is. ADEM just got some air monitors from the EPA to check for toxic smoke contaminants.
The poor bastards who live next to the thing.
AL.com update
This post was edited on 1/11/23 at 10:22 am
13
Posted on 1/7/23 at 9:33 am to Diseasefreeforall
quote:so it smells like Birmingham
smells like a tire covered in cat piss then set on fire
Posted on 1/7/23 at 9:35 am to Diseasefreeforall
That environmental landfill is sure putting a lot of carbon into the atmosphere.
Posted on 1/7/23 at 9:36 am to Diseasefreeforall
Got a house on a hill next to the trash dump! Prime location!
For sale 350,000
For sale 350,000
Posted on 1/7/23 at 9:42 am to Diseasefreeforall
Not sure how this fire started but if it started subterranean - there’s really no putting it out. Theres landfills that have been on fire below the surface for years. And typically the owner walks away, and lets the state take over.
Posted on 1/7/23 at 9:58 am to LootieandtheBlowfish
quote:
if it started subterranean -
I believe that's how it started. 20 years of dumping timber and brush and non organic material in a hole led to combustion below. It was only a matter of time and pressure.
I'd say it's burned down 20 feet since Nov 25th. So only about 100 more feet to go.
Posted on 1/7/23 at 10:04 am to auisssa
Then they can fill it up again
Posted on 1/7/23 at 10:22 am to Diseasefreeforall
I can smell that shite every morning here at the house. We are probably 10 miles southeast of it.
Posted on 1/7/23 at 10:26 am to Diseasefreeforall
When I was a field rep one of the industrial landfill customers I called on had a tire fire. It broke out on a Saturday night and they had it put out by the next afternoon. They did it by using a Cat D6T dozer and 349 excavator to smother the fire with dirt brought up to the top of the landfill by their fleet of 740 articulated trucks. They’re supposed to be trained to handle this sort of thing. Not sure why this landfill can’t get this fire put out.
Posted on 1/7/23 at 10:35 am to Darth_Vader
That’s if the fire is on or near the surface.
If it’s a C&D landfill without gas vents and there is a lot of gas being generated + high temps down in the cell a fire can start. It’s poor landfill management on the operators end.
If you try to dig down to where the fire is - which is already burning in a low oxygen environment, you’re going to introduce oxygen and boom the fire becomes much larger theoretically.
This is why landfills typically aren’t allowed to accept tires, shingles etc - but it happens all the time.
If it’s a C&D landfill without gas vents and there is a lot of gas being generated + high temps down in the cell a fire can start. It’s poor landfill management on the operators end.
If you try to dig down to where the fire is - which is already burning in a low oxygen environment, you’re going to introduce oxygen and boom the fire becomes much larger theoretically.
This is why landfills typically aren’t allowed to accept tires, shingles etc - but it happens all the time.
Posted on 1/7/23 at 10:45 am to Diseasefreeforall
quote:
The poor bastards who live next to the thing.
My uncle's family lives RIGHT next to it, opposite direction of the homes in the photo.
Even before the fires started they've been fighting the new owners. They've been leaving trash uncovered for months, when it's supposed to be buried every night to cover the smell better. They are livid. My aunt has lupus, so it's not lot she's in great health to begin with.
My parents live in Odenville, and the smoke reached them yesterday. My mom grew up in the foothills of Mt St Helens, and she only has about 50% lung capacity because of the ash she inhaled when it blew its top. So this smoke is REALLY bothering her. But she's being stubborn and won't come stay with us.
edit: the landfill accepts home trash. I've even dumped hot tubs there. They take all kinds of trash there.
This post was edited on 1/7/23 at 10:48 am
Posted on 1/7/23 at 10:55 am to LootieandtheBlowfish
quote:
That’s if the fire is on or near the surface.
If you want to see what can happen in a perfect storm of a subterranean fire, look up Centralia, PA (documentary The Town That Was). Thank goodness there’s no anthracite coal under Birmingham.
Posted on 1/7/23 at 10:58 am to VaBamaMan
quote:
My uncle's family lives RIGHT next to it, opposite direction of the homes in the photo.
Even before the fires started they've been fighting the new owners. They've been leaving trash uncovered for months, when it's supposed to be buried every night to cover the smell better. They are livid. My aunt has lupus, so it's not lot she's in great health to begin with.
My parents live in Odenville, and the smoke reached them yesterday. My mom grew up in the foothills of Mt St Helens, and she only has about 50% lung capacity because of the ash she inhaled when it blew its top. So this smoke is REALLY bothering her. But she's being stubborn and won't come stay with us.
edit: the landfill accepts home trash. I've even dumped hot tubs there. They take all kinds of trash there.
Very interesting firsthand info about dumping whatever there. The smell is clearly not just burning trees and leaves.
I'm near Springville and it's really bad today. My brother in law works outside and he's started coughing pretty badly. He went to the doc and it seems like he's not sick so the smoke is the obvious reason.
Posted on 1/7/23 at 10:59 am to Diseasefreeforall
Living in Carrington has sucked for weeks.
Posted on 1/7/23 at 11:02 am to Diseasefreeforall
From what I’ve heard, the owners have no money and no insurance, and all the local/state agencies are just doing a bunch of finger pointing trying to get it off their plate. Lawsuits are being pursued but there doesn’t seem to be anything to collect or force action on. For people in the Odenville/Moody area, this may turn into a legit torches and pitchforks situation once they all decide on who to blame.
Posted on 1/7/23 at 11:08 am to LootieandtheBlowfish
Couldn't they maybe just drill in tubes from the sides and inject a shitload of water?
Posted on 1/7/23 at 11:29 am to Chucktown_Badger
quote:
Couldn't they maybe just drill in tubes from the sides and inject a shitload of water?
The leachate would be pretty nasty stuff and I don't think there's readily available boring equipment that could such a thing. Then there's the logistics of sourcing water and pumping it.
Posted on 1/7/23 at 11:31 am to tigahfromtheham
quote:
Living in Carrington has sucked for weeks.
Same. You play in the Friday night poker game per chance? I know a couple of Louisiana boys play.
Posted on 1/7/23 at 11:33 am to Chucktown_Badger
Republic tested something similar at a LF fire in STL but idk if that ever ended up working. They basically cycled cold water down to cool off the area around it and kept circulating it.
I think the amount of water required to inject as you’re talking about is prohibitive as it’s not the same for a typical fire. It also presents other issues - if this is an old C&D landfill it’s not lined well, if at all. introducing a ton of water then creates a potential groundwater issue due to a ton of leachate that the site is clearly not set up to handle.
Seeing that the owner is broke/no insurance from the other comment is bad news.
Best case is it runs out of fuel in a ‘quick’ manner on its own.
In school we wanted to research artificially inflating the temperature to increase decomposition rate and gas production to then re-use and sell but the idea was quickly shot down due to the potential of events like this.
I think the amount of water required to inject as you’re talking about is prohibitive as it’s not the same for a typical fire. It also presents other issues - if this is an old C&D landfill it’s not lined well, if at all. introducing a ton of water then creates a potential groundwater issue due to a ton of leachate that the site is clearly not set up to handle.
Seeing that the owner is broke/no insurance from the other comment is bad news.
Best case is it runs out of fuel in a ‘quick’ manner on its own.
In school we wanted to research artificially inflating the temperature to increase decomposition rate and gas production to then re-use and sell but the idea was quickly shot down due to the potential of events like this.
Posted on 1/7/23 at 11:41 am to LootieandtheBlowfish
quote:
if this is an old C&D landfill it’s not lined well, if at all.
Not lined at all.
quote:
Best case is it runs out of fuel in a ‘quick’ manner on its own.
Probably 8 to 12 months of fuel left.
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