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Doesn't matter if northern states had slaves, still wrong.

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Why do you think slavery is wrong? Upon what do you base your thinking? Is it also wrong to own a cow, dog or chicken?

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Perhaps they would be given their own state or territory

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Isn't that where Liberia came from?

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Which raises the question of what to do about the slaves who are no longer economically viable

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Soylent Green

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Which raises the question of what to do about the slaves who are no longer economically viable

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Manumission. Then you'd see migrations to cities where they were still willing to pay them pennies a day to work in factories with no safety regulations.

Of course, the Irish had no value so they might have sucked up all the jobs.

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Again, that wouldn't have been an easy sell to the manifest destiny types who wanted that territory for their own purposes.

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Then maybe you see a large scale repatriation to Africa like Booker T Washington wanted.

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Forgive me but I thought WWI was the result of convoluted treaties and the rise of regional nationalism in Europe. America was isolated at the time. Why would the independent confederacy have an impact on whether WWI happens?

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It's the Butterfly Effect. If it weren't for the American Revolution for instance, the French Revolution would have never happened (at least of any semblance that we historically know it as). If America had lost the Civil War, then that would have massive effects on trade and industrialization around the world. A Mexican Empire could have formed. We may have lost the Spanish American War if that still came into fruition. No telling how history is subtlety effected by a war 50 years from before.

I can almost guarantee that Hitler wouldn't have come to power or even been conceived if the South had won the war, so WWII is totally different, especially on the Pacific front for how we militarized Japan after the Civil War.

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So... The Confederacy's views were worse than Nazi views, on some people, and slightly better on others?

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Probably a true statement depending on how you look at it, we are also judging those time periods by modern sensibilities. During the Nazi period, it was much closer to current thinking but different enough to be very noticeable. The Nazi belief in their own superiority, I think, is ultimately worse because all non Aryan's would eventually became subhuman in that world of thinking.

I suspect the prevailing thinking was manipulated by people in power (as is common throughout history) in order to maintain and increase their own political and economic standing.

I don't know how much would be different in Europe. Harry Turtledove covered this in a series of books I enjoyed.

The CSA expanded west and took some Mexican states while the USA expanded north. Because of that England sided with the CSA while the USA sided with the newly created Germany.


World War one in his books was a war started by the USA with the CSA. In which the north finally won. after losing two previous wars to the CSA. The restrictions imposed on the CSA led the the rise of Fascism in the south. World War 2 was again a mostly North American war, with the CSA and USA nuking each other and the CSA eventually losing.

A small event can change history greatly. Like if Archduke Ferdinand had never gone to Sarajevo then WW1 would have never started so there never would have even been a rise of Fascism in Germany.
The Soviets would never have risen to power if WW1 didn't happen.

A change in travel plans alone could have changed the entire course of the last century.

So its hard to tell what effect the USA and CSA both existing would have caused.

Turtledove's entire premise to the Southern victory was the north not gaining the intelligence found by Lee's marching orders being stolen.

The south in his books ended slavery the way Brazil did.
But blacks replaced Jews in WW2 in those books.

Interesting read.


Before and after WW1




The World in 1941

Until some saw the light.

It took Reconstruction for the confederate states to certify the XIVth.