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1
Posted on 1/30/25 at 6:32 pm to LSUJuice
quote:By the time he would have seen it it would have been too late for the plane to go around. The helicopter would have had to take evasive action, although they seemed clueless.
Yes but once the conflict alarm sounded, wouldn't it have been prudent to call for the RJ to go around? Not necessity saying he should have, but certainly could have.
Posted on 1/30/25 at 6:32 pm to sicboy
quote:
there have been multiple articles on near collision events at airports in recent years. Those interviewed say the big issue is understaffing and inadequate training for ATC.
Bringing DEI earns him brownie points with his minions, but not even remotely the issue
Your answer does not automatically prove DEI was “not even remotely the issue.”
Who were actually interviewed? Would they be politically motivated to protected an administrations pushed hiring practices?
If using quotas to hire instead of merit while still trying to maintain some basic level of competency couldn’t shortages arise? Would promoting based on DEI push other existing employees who were more qualified or at least felt like that they were more qualified to move on to other careers?
Training focused first on DEI or run by inadequate DEI hires may be inadequate. Hires that are far too inexperienced or incompetent may require more training than management is able to give them.
The same could be said with military DEI and political hires and promotions. There have been many military issues recently as well including a lowering of some standards.
I honestly have no clue yet if DEI was involved here or not, but your answer also shows you really don’t know as well.
Posted on 1/30/25 at 6:37 pm to Red Stick Tigress
quote:
CBS Evening News tonight said they haven't retrieved the black box yet but know where they are.
I hate media conflicting reports.
I am not deaf and know what I heard.
The black boxes have acoustic devices called “pingers” activated by water that transmit an omnidirectional underwater signal, not positional. A surface listening device (hydrophone) deployed from a small boat can listen and eventually home into the pingers location based on directional signal strength. It’s analogous to an aviation VOR aid with no DME functionality.
The fact that the pingers are operational is a good sign for eventual recovery. Aircraft wreckage debris and hazards to divers may make recovery more tedious, but they’ll eventually be recovered and taken for analysis. Their battery life is approximately 30 days.
I would be more concerned if the pingers weren’t active.
Posted on 1/30/25 at 6:38 pm to dallastigers
quote:
Your answer does not automatically prove DEI was “not even remotely the issue.” Who were actually interviewed? Would they be politically motivated to protected an administrations pushed hiring practices? If using quotas to hire instead of merit while still trying to maintain some basic level of competency couldn’t shortages arise? Would promoting based on DEI push other existing employees who were more qualified or at least felt like that they were more qualified to move on to other careers? Training focused first on DEI or run by inadequate DEI hires may be inadequate. Hires that are far too inexperienced or incompetent may require more training than management is able to give them. The same could be said with military DEI and political hires and promotions. There have been many military issues recently as well including a lowering of some standards. I honestly have no clue yet if DEI was involved here or not, but your answer also shows you really don’t know as well.
You people are SO fricking annoying. Do you not understand DEI is being used as a cudgel to rope you along?
Is DEI bullshite? Yes. Has it had anywhere NEAR the impact on everyday life, the military, or workplace as y’all paint it out to be? frick no.
First it was trans bathrooms. Stolen elections. Starbucks and Bud Light. CRT was in there for a good while. Now it’s fricking DEI. I mean, how the frick have you not caught on yet!?!
Here we have a true tragedy and some of you sorry bitches just cannot help yourselves. Unreal. And you call yourselves “patriots”? FOH.
ETA: Apologies to those of you actually here to discuss what happened. I should be better than this post. Unfortunately, at present, I’m not. I can only read so many fricking DEI posts in this thread before having to comment.
This post was edited on 1/30/25 at 6:42 pm
Posted on 1/30/25 at 6:50 pm to mmmmmbeeer
Less than 24 hours since the crash and both sides blame each other. It really is sad how arguments break out just for likes, clicks, whatever. The county as a whole is numb to the largest airline incident in decades. 60+ dead.
We won’t ever know what the pilots saw or didn’t see. Just speculation. Accidents do happen. Most of yall need to go step outside.
We won’t ever know what the pilots saw or didn’t see. Just speculation. Accidents do happen. Most of yall need to go step outside.
Posted on 1/30/25 at 6:56 pm to mmmmmbeeer
quote:
I can only read so many fricking DEI posts in this thread before having to comment.
Oh shut up you whiny baby. People can discuss DEI as much as they want and there’s not a damn thing you can do about it. Go back to DU
Posted on 1/30/25 at 6:57 pm to TorchtheFlyingTiger
quote:More on this point...I read a WSJ article that says:
Not sure what audio you heard. I heard one with helo calling seperation.
quote:
It couldn’t be determined if the Black Hawk heard or acknowledged the request to keep an eye out for the Bombardier. A former federal aviation official told the Journal that air-traffic controllers gave the helicopter clear instructions to pass behind it.
LINK
Posted on 1/30/25 at 6:58 pm to Mr Breeze
quote:
The fact that the pingers are operational is a good sign for eventual recovery.
The wreckage is in 7-15 ft of water. It’s a damn near slam dunk to recover them. Not really sure what all that’s going to do here even if they are completely intact. Most of the information needed can be gathered by 3rd party equipment. This was virtually in the middle of one of the most watched air spaces in the world.
Posted on 1/30/25 at 7:01 pm to mmmmmbeeer
If the ATC saw a warning on his radar and both aircraft seemed unaware?
I wasn’t in his shoes , but I hope.. I would have given addition traffic advisory’s and assigned a turn as a last resort. But if the controller gave a heading to an aircraft which stated they were maintaining visual, and then collided, they would probably blame the controller.
Saw where the Blackhawk would’ve been on a different radio system than the jet. …. Regardless, in most cases, the controller has both frequencies in the headset. Pilots normally don’t communicate with each other here.
I wasn’t in his shoes , but I hope.. I would have given addition traffic advisory’s and assigned a turn as a last resort. But if the controller gave a heading to an aircraft which stated they were maintaining visual, and then collided, they would probably blame the controller.
Saw where the Blackhawk would’ve been on a different radio system than the jet. …. Regardless, in most cases, the controller has both frequencies in the headset. Pilots normally don’t communicate with each other here.
Posted on 1/30/25 at 7:03 pm to mmmmmbeeer
quote:
You people are SO fricking annoying.
That is fricking rich.
Posted on 1/30/25 at 7:04 pm to cgrand
quote:
any comment on the flight altitude of the helicopter?
Only what the news is saying, that that “‘profile” is normally flown at 200 MSL and below. I’ve heard on the news that they collided at between 300 and 400.
Posted on 1/30/25 at 7:05 pm to GatorOnAnIsland
quote:
If the ATC saw a warning on his radar and both aircraft seemed unaware? I wasn’t in his shoes , but I hope.. I would have given addition traffic advisory’s and assigned a turn as a last resort. But if the controller gave a heading to an aircraft which stated they were maintaining visual, and then collided, they would probably blame the controller. Saw where the Blackhawk would’ve been on a different radio system than the jet. …. Regardless, in most cases, the controller has both frequencies in the headset. Pilots normally don’t communicate with each other here.
As if I didn’t consider ATC an incredibly high stress job already….sounds like, outside of blatant/intentional disregard for ATC, wrecks will fall on ATC. Brutal.
I sure hope you got paid a lot and have a nice retirement package.
Posted on 1/30/25 at 7:06 pm to mmmmmbeeer
quote:The most pot meet kettle comment I have ever read on the OT.
You people are SO fricking annoying.
You threw up your typical response for a post that was questioning another poster making unproven statement that there was no way DEI was even remotely involved. It even finished with “I honestly have no clue yet if DEI was involved here or not, but your answer also shows you really don’t know as well.”
Yet that was enough to cause another typical post from mmmm.
quote:Have you? Or did you miss how those policies and the over reactions by you and your ilk helped Trump win?
how the frick have you not caught on yet!?!
Posted on 1/30/25 at 7:09 pm to East Coast Band
Just awful.
Posted on 1/30/25 at 7:10 pm to LSUJuice
quote:
wouldn't it have been prudent to call for the RJ to go around
Like I said earlier, I can’t really say because I wasn’t there. I can imagine at that point that the controller might have thought that if he gave a go-around he might have made things worse, still assuming the PAT was actually maintaining visual separation. He also had 4 or more aircraft he was dealing with. It was a shite situation.
Posted on 1/30/25 at 7:10 pm to baldona
quote:
The wreckage is in 7-15 ft of water. It’s a damn near slam dunk to recover them. Not really sure what all that’s going to do here even if they are completely intact. Most of the information needed can be gathered by 3rd party equipment. This was virtually in the middle of one of the most watched air spaces in the world.
Perhaps, but I haven’t seen an unambiguous plot of the choppers flight path altitude. The point of impact will certainly define that based on the CRJ’s black box data.
Posted on 1/30/25 at 7:14 pm to GatorOnAnIsland
quote:
As a retired FAA ATC with 36 years experience, I can pretty much guarantee that on initial contact with the PAT, in reference to the RJ, the controller gave all of the required information to the PAT, such as position, altitude, type, and intentions of the RJ. I am assuming the PAT said traffic in sight at that point. We didn’t hear that initial contact on the audio, just the update to the PAT. Once an aircraft says they have the traffic in sight and will maintain visual separation, you expect the aircraft to maintain visual separation.
Thanks.
Can you think of any reason a military helicopter flying a route that has a well known max of 200 ft, which they are abiding, would out of nowhere go straight up to 400 ft knowing they were literally in a freaking runway path?
Suicide is the only thing that comes to mind.
Make it make sense.
Posted on 1/30/25 at 7:18 pm to mmmmmbeeer
quote:
I sure hope you got paid a lot and have a nice retirement package.
I did and I do. The job was actually a lot of fun most of the time with occasional times of puckering up and going down the tubes. I miss the job, but I don’t miss going to work. They make you retire at age 56.
Posted on 1/30/25 at 7:19 pm to Hodag
quote:
Can you think of any reason a military helicopter flying a route that has a well known max of 200 ft, which they are abiding, would out of nowhere go straight up to 400 ft knowing they were literally in a freaking runway path?
Suicide is the only thing that comes to mind.
Make it make sense.
One cant ever say for certain, but just so you know there are an abundance of aviation mishaps that don't get really reported much out to the general public (unless you actively search for those things). I can tell you stranger/more stupid things have happened that would make you scratch your head as to what the hell was going on.
Don't get wrapped around the axel on it, unfortunately this was way more tragic than those other incidences.
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